Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

brownbeauty that sounds really really hard to cook. Guess I will have to stick with takeaway although it won't be as nice as yours!

It's very easy
Ull b surprised
Give it a go when u have time
After a few times it will become second nature
The coal part isn't really necessary it's just a fancy extra

We can all learn from each other about our cultures and that should be a positive thing. That doesn’t translate to: that’s all they exist for. How disingenuous to twist what’s being said that way

Quite so, Oxytocin, though interesting as ever to see the attempts to twist this round into something else completely. A shame, really - but just as there'll always be filthy racists, so there'll also be those who try to create trouble where none was intended

brownbeauty many thanks for the recipe, and please can I ask something? (without making assumptions, honest!! ) When washing the dry rice before using, I've always stuck it in a colander under the cold tap, rather than using a bowl with the water in it. Is it okay to do this,, or am I committing some sort of culinary crime??

though interesting as ever to see the attempts to twist this round into something else completely. A shame, really - but just as there'll always be filthy racists, so there'll also be those who try to create trouble where none was intended

Is that aimed towards anyone on this thread?

Sorry don't know how to highlight users

Rice can be washed in strainer or bowl
My mum always uses a bowl so that is what I have picked up from her

brownbeauty

Bold: hello gives hello (bolded)

He was very rude. If everything is racist nothing is.

If you hadn't asked because he was male, would that have been sexist?

I think he was rude, and has poor customer skills. There are lots of ways to let you know that he can't give advice on cooking a well known dish other than accusing you of being racist.

I've had lots of advice from staff in specialist shops and supermarkets on how to cook the things I've bought. When I've asked and they don't know, they just say that they don't cook much. I've even been asked for advice when I've just been a customer- I'm quite happy to help if I can without accusing anyone of anything unpleasant.

@Jenny17 thanks

She asked based on heritage not race

That was to Jenny17

She asked based on heritage not race
Not sure what you are talking about here.

In general asking question based on heritage (I suspect most people do not know people's heritage by looking at them) is similarly not acceptable. If you know the person and they are happy to discuss with you fine.

I often find when words like "making trouble" and similarly telling people what questions they should have to answer as quite unpleasant behaviour.

What a fuss over nothing.

Nobody said he ‘should’ answer the question, although it is pretty standard to ask about food in a food shop...

I actually find claiming non-racist things as racist to be very unpleasant behaviour and an obstacle to resolving actual racism.

Are you Indian Jenny? Only, more than one Indian person on this thread and myself as a mixed race person have all contributed and explained why we wouldn’t find it racist if we were in that position. I find it very frustrating when white people wade in to declare something is racist after actual POC have tried to explain why it isn’t. It’s called ally theatre. But I wouldn’t want to assume your skin colour or ethnicity.

deficient
I've not declared anything as racist so your argument goes out the window.
Perhaps read what has been written, I've been clear what I have said is in general and not the OPs situation.

So comment on this post then. This man accused her of racism. That’s the topic here. And again, several POC have contributed and all you’ve done is disagree with us and repeatedly misrepresented what others are saying, presenting situations that are not relevant.

Are you a person of colour or not? Why are you arguing and insisting on what is or is not acceptable in these situations, with people who have direct experience? Sorry but that is exactly what I’m talking about in my previous comment.

Are you Indian Jenny? Only, more than one Indian person on this thread and myself as a mixed race person have all contributed and explained why we wouldn’t find it racist if we were in that position. I find it very frustrating when white people wade in to declare something is racist after actual POC have tried to explain why it isn’t. It’s called ally theatre. But I wouldn’t want to assume your skin colour or ethnicity

None of this is relevant to any of the comments I made. Please don't take you frustrations out on an issue that has nothing to do with me. And no I won't be answering your questions as its none of you business and I'm not here for assumptions based on race. I don't find them acceptable.

deficient

I'm not answering your questions you sound entitled and have either read incorrectly or are falsely representing what I've said. I stand by what I've said. I'm out becuase this has been unconstructuve for a while.

No assumptions based on race. I’m telling you, if you are white and are here arguing with POC about this, you are whitesplaining racism and that is vile.

I am glad you’re off because I don’t find the way you’re dominating a conversation about racism, when you’re clearly not someone affected by it. Shut up and stay in your lane.

Oxy I agree with most of what you say in this thread but that last comment not so much

It's a multi faceted debate and other people's opinions are valid.

Jenny has a point there but I disagree that there's much difference in most people's perception when it comes to being racially inappropriate or insensitive as compared to just being racist.

I don’t need people to agree with me. I’ve had a lifetime of white people speaking over POC and telling us what we should or should not be offended by. That’s the message in my last two comments.

No it was more the bit where you said no assumptions based on race and then assumed their race to make a point.

He works in a food shop, it is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask. You weren’t in B&Q.

Im Indian and I get why he was upset. It the sort of casual racism we face all the time. Good for him that he called you out on it. I just swallow it and feel bad.
It was totally fine to ask about the ingredients and what he thought of the quality etc.
But then to take a leap and ask about a very specific, complex dish that is made in one part of the country is both a bit ignorant and racist. Its not like asking an English person how to make gravy - its more like asking an English person how to make Spanakopita - after all you are white so you should know.
But OP - thank you for being sensitive enough to post and ask the question and honest enough to say that you would not have asked the question if he had been white.

Let me clarify. I’m not assuming anything about her based on race. Her behaviour here is what I’m commenting on. I’m unequivocally saying a white person, that’s the assumption based on behaviour and the reluctance to state race, should not continue arguing about what is or isn’t racist ( to the point of calling our own behaviour unpleasant ) with POC. Race is important in this conversation, as that’s the topic. It is absolutely infuriating to have a person continue to derail and talk in generalisations, deliberately misrepresenting what other posters are saying, and talk over those of us with actual lived experience of what is being talked about here. If you haven’t been in this situation, if you’re never on the end of actual racism, your job is to listen. Not argue. If someone doesn’t want to say they’re a white person as you think that’s irrelevant, in a conversation about race, then you really really don’t get any of this at all.