Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

tralalalaaaaa

That’s not what racism is. I assume things based on accent. Is that racism or an observation? People assume all sorts about me because of the colour of my skin, most of it wrong. If she treated him as inferior because of her assumption, that would be the racist part. Asking about spices, is not racist.

Of course YANBU, the guy was selling food products, it's hardly racist to assume he might know what to do with them. The guy was very rude

I don't get it. You asked him a simple straightforward question about a recipe. How could that possibly be offensive or racist? If someone asked me how to make gravy calling them a racist would be the furthest thing from my mind.
He sounds like a wanker. Forget him.

@Oxytocindeficient define it then. Why on nearly a daily basis and I spoken to in different languages, asked about curry, asked which region of India in from, if I eat beef, if I’m Hindu or Muslim when I’m actually Christian and my dad is white English but all of these questions are based on the colour of my skin.

The OP openly said they wouldn’t have asked if it was a white person. The OP seems to be a good person, they are questioning their actions. Many walk off with a feeling of superiority that they daren’t go to that shop again. Imo OP I’d take it as a lesson learnt to tread more carefully, you did offend someone.

And also @Moussemoose just because the guy is Indian doesn’t mean he wants British people patronisingly assuming he must know how to cook a good curry because he runs a shop selling spices.

If I met someone who was Greek, had lived in Greece for most of his life and was in a shop that sold Greek food would it be racist to think he might know about Greek food?

And if you work in a shop that sells ingredients for food you can't really complain when people talk to you about food.

In America I have lots of conversations about tea. Waiters in restaurants hear my accent and talk to me about what tea I like and how to make tea, the conversation is based on an assumption that British people like tea.

I'm in a restaurant ordering a meal and I am discussing what to drink so a conversation about tea is entirely in context and logical.

A conversation about food in a food shop is in context.

Racism is pretty clearly defined, I’m not inventing my own definition. Nobody was being poorly treated or made to feel inferior in the exchange the OP described. Making assumptions based on race, is not in and of itself racist. If the assumptions were derogatory or implied inferiority, then that would be racist. Simply asking someone about how to cook food, even if the assumption is incorrect, is not racist. People stop my mum at markets all the time, she loves it. She doesn’t feel patronised, she considers it a huge compliment. Ask yourself why you think someone assuming a person can cook one of the most loved cuisines in this country, actually the world, is derogatory or insulting. Maybe it is you who has the problem, and not those asking and wanting to learn.

Also could you stop @ me please, it leads to unwanted emails. Just bold the name of those you are wanting to speak to

That guy sounds like a jerk. It is not racist. You were not being discriminatory towards him, you did not show him any antagonism or treat him with any prejudice. Don’t feel bad. You just can’t win with some people.

I ha met read all the comments
I'm Indian
I don't think you were being racist
I'd be honoured if someone asked me how to make the perfect biriyani because I'm Indian
Although a biriyani is a Pakistani dish it is loved in India too
I will in fact give you my recipe later on
I'll post it here

Ooh! I'll be back for that

I guess the question is: would you have asked the same question if he was White? If yes, you asked because he is working in a specialty shop. If you asked, because he has Indian heritage, the question could be considered racist I guess. It would still be an overreaction. You asked if he knows something - that is a question not an assumption. I have friends who have Chinese heritage and are very proud on Chinese cuisine.

BTW, if he responded so angrily because he was bothered by you thinking he cooks, he was probably being sexist. :-)

I look Indian. I used to work in an Indian restaurant.

And found it offensive that people asked you about Indian food?

You. Are. An. Idiot

Off topic but I never understand how hard rice is too cook for some. Perhaps ask MN in a new thread?

... English people who believe they’ve every right to ask a ‘native’ a sensible question about their heritage

Isn't this assuming a bit too much about their intentions though? There'll always be the occasional tosser who feels the empire never died, but it seems a shame to take such a negative view, when actually most were probably just trying to learn - sometimes clumsily perhaps, but not through any bad motive

I will in fact give you my (biryani) recipe later on

Yes please!! Though only yesterday I saw some unfamiliar basmatis in an asian supermarket and asked the owner which was considered the best ... looks like I'd better pack my bags for hell right now

If you asked an Indian friend or colleague how to cook a curry purely because they were Indian it would be mildly racist (mostly just embarrassingly ignorant) but you asked a guy who worked in a specialist shop how to use a certain product.

I’m Māori, if someone asked me how to prepare hangi, I’d answer it. What the actual fuck is the big deal?

He works in an Indian food shop. You asked him how to make a curry. The things hes selling in his shop so he should have an idea!!! Because he's Indian he's making it out to be a racial comment,the fact is don't sell curry things If you don't want to be asked about curry!!!!! He is a tosser for making you out to be a racist! I would of asked the same!

@Tralalalaaaaa you worked in an Indian restaurant and customers had the cheek to ask you what curry's you liked or what was the hottest. How dare they. Get over yourself they were asking you because you worked there and they wanted recommendations. Bloody hell

I see nothing wrong in going to a shop to buy ingredients and asking the proprietor of that shop for advice on how to cook them.

The OP hasn't been remotely racist.

“I don’t suppose you have...” = not an assumption
It’s a hopeful question

I don’t suppose you have any tips
I don’t suppose you know the name of this song
I don’t suppose you can tell me the time

• no, sorry I don’t/can’t.

It’s barely even an assumption. It’s asking someone who may know the answer.

......I used to work in an Indian restaurant. I’m not Indian and have no idea anything to do with the culture languages etc. The amount of people who used to ask me questions like, how do you like this curry, .......what curry is the hottest oh god the list went on. It’s inappropriate and normally comes from white English people.....

Seriously? Can't believe anybody actually thinks that asking advice on the restaurant food from waiting staff in a restaurant is racist! Mind blowing.

Also could you stop @ me please, it leads to unwanted emails. Just bold the name of those you are wanting to speak to

It’s easy enough to turn this feature off if you don’t want email notifications. It’s an optional feature only

It’s easy enough to turn this feature off if you don’t want email notifications Sometimes I do want emails! For example, when it is a poster trying to bring a new thread to my attention.

But I too find it really annoying when I am already 'in thread'. Just bold will be fine then! No need to shout at me twice!

Interesting to see so many people desperate to dismiss an allegation of racism by pretending the shop was a specialist Indian food shop. It wasn't. It was a greengrocers who have a few shelves with spices etc. Of course the OP was out of order to ask for tips on cooking a bloody curry. It's as assumption that because this guy is Indian - or she thinks he is - that Indians eat curry he therefore must be able to tell her how to cook a good curry.