Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

But she didn’t just ask about the product he sold - which he did answer politely.

She asked him for tips on cooking a byriani?!

I think this needs to be looked at through the lens of how much racism ethnic minorities experience in Britain. There was yet another article in the guardian this week.

I wouldn’t hesitate to have asked given they were stocking more specialist ingredients and the man was the owner. It’s a reasonable assumption to make. I work with a number of people from Asian backgrounds and if the talk has turned to food I’ve asked if they’ve any cooking secrets to share. They always have and always do.

OP it's not what you asked but the way you asked it.

If you asked him if he liked cooking then asked him about the ingredients if he had said yes, you wouldn't have been called out.

And yes it is racist to sterotype someone on their cusine whether it is biryani or Yorkshire pudding. This is the covert form of racism people don't understand. In this case it's mild but there are much worse things, one of which was reported on this week in the press.

He was rude. I used to live in an area where there were lots of Polish shops and the staff were always delighted to give us some tips on cooking Polish dishes. They’d usually succeed in getting us to buy more stuff too.

Likewise I’m a Scot and will very happily tell people how to cook Scottish dishes and recommend a good whisky.

If you work in a shop you should expect questions about the goods you sell. All he had to say was that he didn’t really know.

@Flower777 exactly the point I'm making.

Well, I ask the staff in the health food shop about coeliac and veganism... don't really care about the colour of their skin, their sex or their personal eating regime. They work in a health food shop.

I ask the staff in the Polish deli about the foods and pirogi. I don't first ask if they are Polish, Serbian etc. I ask about the food they sell.

So your man in the veg shop that sells specialist Indian stuff can fuck off with his racism accusations. He works there, he will be asked about the produce. If he doesn't want to be asked about Indian cuisine he could work in McDonalds...

Nope not being racist.

Does everything have to be racist these days?

His shop sold foods specific to Indian cuisine and you asked a question about food.

I’m Scottish and if I opened a shop in say, America, selling specialist Scottish ingriedients and someone asked me about how to make Haggis I’d not consider it racist

@CalledYouLastNightFromGlasgow this is what racism looks like.

It is everyday racism.

It is similar to everyday sexism and both wear you down like a thousand paper cuts.

I don't think you were being racist. I wouldn't be annoyed if someone asked me for advice on how to cook a dish from the country my family originates from.

However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked

I love how people replying seem to be skipping over this part

Ywbu

Asking him about product he sells - great!

Asking him for tips to cook a byriani - making an assumption due to the colour of his skin. Which probably happens EVERY day to him. As well as more blatant racism/oppression.

Oh of course you weren’t fgs. How bloody silly. You were asking about products HE was selling! Not a random guy in the street! Stuff like does a real disservice to the cause and trivialises actual real racism.

If you asked a random man on the street how to cook a dish based on his ethnicity you would be racist.

Asking the owner of a shop that specialises in Indian food tips on cooking an Indian dish isn’t racist.

However I can see why the shop-owner jumped to the wrong conclusion.

His reaction was odd as you were buying ingredients for Indian cooking. He clearly has customer service issues, it's totally normal to go in a shop, especially a smaller one and ask about the ingredients and recipes. I would absolutely, to take the rarebit example, expect to go in a deli and be able to ask them about the best cheese to go in a rarebit recipe.
It's not as if you went to hospital, saw a doctor who might be of Indian origin and ask for a curry recipe! Forget about it and move on, the guy was rude.

Some people are really missing the point here. And making some outrageous comments about this man.

This is why it is so hard for people to speak up about racism because this is what happens. A deluge of people saying that it wasn’t and insulting him.

You didn’t mean any harm and he didn’t need to react that way. We all live together and if you look for offence you can find it everywhere - if he’d just laughed and said he had no idea you’d have both gone away happy.

My (Indian) neighbour has asked me how to make Shepherds Pie and popped round for Turkey advice at Christmas.

One warning though, if you’re ever in company with my
Jamaican DP don’t ask him about Jerk Chicken.......he thinks he’s an expert and will happily take up 2 hours of your life describing every possible aspect of ‘The Jerk’ you can imagine! It’s his heritage and he’s damn proud of it.......his Mum was a great cook and taught him well.

I think that sharing recipes and cooking techniques brings people closer.

He is probably annoyed a women expected him to know how to cook

Why do you think that?

It wasn't a specialist shop?? He stocked items that can be used in a curry.... like most major supermarkets??

I imagine if this interaction had happened in Sainsbury's or Waitrose the response would have been different?? But because this man was serving in an independent and of Asian/Indian heritage he was out of order? Rude? You lots are nuts!

A lot to give pause for thought here. I guess the leap from products to asking for cuisine tips was a stretch too far in assumptions (btw I have previously spoken to the wife when they opened the shop and I do know they are from North India and came here 10 years ago so that did feed my assumption he may have some authentic tips)

Just to reiterate I would never assume every person of Indian culture knows how to make a curry-nor would I ask. It was the combination of his specialist shop, coupled with country of origin that led me to ask.

I have often asked staff in Wing Yip for hints in the same way I would ask the butcher for hints on best slow cooked lamb. But perhaps that is wrong too?

But I do understand that those assumptions are different depending on history of repression etc.

Goodness what an upset on a Saturday afternoon!!

Him saying it's racism doesn't make it racist though.
I was struck by the comment that he doesn't ask every white person how to make gravy? This what gets me. If he went to Tesco and found somebody middle aged or above, not a Saturday person, he could totally ask how to make gravy. In bigger shops today the staff at the cash desk chat quite a bit, personally I find that a bit annoying, but I definitely think that chatting about Indian recipes when you are in a shop that sells the appropriate ingredients, is just a really normal thing to do.

@CrazyDuchess Sorry the comparison with Waitrose and Supermarkets is way off

This shop is on a local high street and probably the size of a footprint of an avg house. Although they do sell all fruit and veg, two aisles (nearly half their shop) is taken with Indian specialist ingredients which they are known locally for, as I have said above.

If you were working in a clothes shop and a man came in and asked you how to darn socks what would you think? I would be slightly pissed off and wonder why he approached a woman to ask her about darning socks.

Yes it’s not overtly sexist but it’s like death by a thousand cuts. Yes it was unfair on you and I don’t think you meant anything bad by it all but if he’s asked things like this regularly everyday becuase of his colour maybe occasionally he snaps.

I’m mixed race and have been asked many presumptuous questions based on how i look. Once when a colleague couldn’t recall the name of a singer she said ‘oh you should know her name Unfinished, you’re black’ as if I have an internal database of every non white singer! I was pretty pissed. You were both being unreasonable.

It wasn't a specialist shop??

The OP, in her follow up post, states it’s known locally as a specialist shop.

I get asked questions about Scottish cooking in the US quite a bit and I don't sell any ingredients.
Maybe he was embarrassed because he doesn't do any cooking and couldn't help you? Maybe the dish you were asking about wasn't part of his cultural heritage?
He could have handled the situation much better but everyone has bad days.