Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

I don't think YABU.

If I went into a Chinese shop for spices if probably ask at the till if they had recommendations for recipes or other ways to use them.

Was it a specialist Indian grocery shop? Like an Asian supermarket? you were making conversation and asking for advice in line with what you were buying so I don’t think YWBU... like if you were going into a Asian supermarket and asking for a recipe for a Thai curry!

My (Indian) DH would have been cross if you'd asked him that.

Please don't assume things about people because of the way they look.

@SneakyGremlins @Mooey89 It's a normal greengrocers but they are known to have specialist selection of Indian Ingredients and have two aisles specifically for these sorts of things. So although you can go in and get the usual fodder, they are also known locally to be specialist in this area

At first I didn't think IWBU but his reaction was so surprising and strong that it's made me really stop and think

As a serial expat I have often been asked how to make gravy, yorkshire pudding etc. I've never considered it racist...I was asked as the British "expert" that happened to present

You made the assumption he may have a few tips as he runs a specialist food shop and therefore takes a interest in the products. All he had to say, 'I am not a great cook, you are asking the wrong person'. He was rude and in this day an age that is not a way to treat customers

I wouldn't say your unreasonable my DH did similar years ago. We were in an Indian restaurant and he asked how to pronounce tika as I pronounce it teeka and he pronounces it ticka so he asked the waiter who looked at him like he was crazy and said how would I know I'm from round here. Left DH looking shamefaced and me laughing my arse off now it's just a funny story but he was mortified at the time he had asked because the guy works in a restaurant serving the dish not because the man was Indian!

You made assumptions about him. I don’t think it was racist as such.

The difference between asking your welsh friend is that she won’t have experienced racism/oppression because of the colour of her skin. He most likely will have.

If you asked a random bloke I can see his point.

If you are in a shop with a specialist section asking a person working in the shop about products the shop sells is not unusual.

I would ask a Polish person working in a Polish shop about Polish products.

You did assume, based on the way he looked. I wouldn't say you were racist, just v short-sighted.

I'm Welsh and wouldn't have a clue how to make a 'Welsh Rarebit', in fact it's not something Ive ever heard anyone say they even eat come to think of it?

So whilst you might not have been intentionally racist, it was a bit ignorant to make such an assumption.

I don't think you were being racist. When you run a specialist shop people assume you use those things yourself. I would ask a similar question of the owner of a health food shop.

@BayleyF
May I suggest he never gets a job in a stop with a specialist section of Indian foods then. If she was asking a random Indian person working in the pharmacy or clothes store you'd have a point but most local businesses are more than happy to provide advice on how best to use their products which is what she was really asking.

No - in my opinion he was rude. He works in a shop which sells various elements needed for Indian cookery, it’s not unreasonable that you should chat with him about this and ask for tips about the produce he sells. If he had been working in a hardware shop or something that he would have had more of a point.

I would feel upset about this in your shoes,
too. I’d try not to sweat it too much.

More likely an assumption he did any cooking that pissed him off.

If he wasn't the owner, alienating customers prob a bad idea.

I think i’d have asked him if he cooked at all and had a conversation about that before asking if he had any recipe tips. But other than that I don’t think you were BU.

The man works in a greengrocer selling speciality foods, it’s not unreasonable to ask. Had he been a school teacher or bank manager or would be have unreasonable to make that assumption but it’s not reasonable for someone to have knowledge of the products they are selling.

I don't think there is much wrong with asking someone in the shop a question linked to the product.
I ask the people working in B&Q questions about DIY, not because they are men but because they are selling that product. That's not sexist I hope!

Meant it’s not *unreasonable. for someone to have knowledge...

It was definitely that he worked in this specialist shop that made me ask him-I absolutely wouldn't have accosted a random man on the street how to make curry. And my Forber makes a good Welsh Rarebit so I knew this when I asked her (which means it's probably a poor comparison!)

I agree with PP that I think I should have asked about cooking experience first and I do think I probably made an assumption.

Am a little calmer now but just hated the thought I'd hurt someone's feelings unintentionally. I think I'll both shop elsewhere and ask a few questions before asking for advice!

YWNBU to ask.
He WNBU to be annoyed but I think he was a bit harsh. Although I have no idea what is going on in his life.

It's just one of those things. You weren't to know he would be annoyed. Another person could have been thrilled to be asked and insist you take a copy of his favourite recipe. Or they could have laughed and said 'I'm more of a Yorkshire pudding man myself'. But if he finds it annoying/offensive, he's within his rights to express that.

Freeing not Forber!!

Argh friend!! Fat fingers

In the context of the shop's specialism, I don't think you were being racist at all. In fact, I think he was quite rude to respond so emotionally. It is not unreasonable to expect the owner of a specialist shop to have knowledge of the products he/she sells and the best ways to use them.