Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

You weren’t accused though, were you? You made an assumption based on the way he looked.

Again the point is the OP said if the power was white she would never had asked him. OPs post are littered with casual racism

I am more likely to ask my French mate about an aspect of French culture than my British mate. That is not racism.

Arguably, in some contexts, it could be a little dumb- many people of South Asian origin have been here 3/4 generations- but it still wouldn't be racist.

I don't think, in this scenario, OP was remotely foolish. Someone the OP knows is of Indian heritage running a food shop with a specialist Indian selection seem at least a reasonable possibility.

I dunno, I think it's a bit odd that you asked him for cooking tips immediately after he told you that he hadn't used the spices in question. Seems like a bit of a non sequitur given he'd just indicated he wasn't an active cook.

I don't think you were being racist OP. He was an Indian man you knew to have moved to the UK 10 years ago and he owns/works in an Indian food specialist shop. You asked for recipes/cooking tips regarding ingredients he sells. I can't see anything wrong with that.

I'm not from the UK and I've had a lot of people ask me questions specific to where I am from. Things I would have no idea about, but I just say 'Oh I'm not sure, sorry.' and move along. I've also had racist abuse yelled at me 'Fuck off back to where you came from!' That is racist and very upsetting. But someone buying my merchandise, asking a question about something I'm selling or a recipe tip from my home country, not racist at all. It's actually sort of flattering for someone to say 'You're from Xplace? Oh I love Xfood from there and I've been trying to make it for ages, got any good tips?'

If I were you, I would start shopping elsewhere.

I don’t think YWBU, if an Indian person had asked the man how to make a biryani would he have reacted in the same way? If you work in retail you will be asked about the products you sell, probably not so is that not him making assumptions about you?

You weren’t accused though, were you?

I think you missed this bit: He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?'

You made an assumption based on the way he looked.

She made an assumption based on where he was from and the business he chose to run.

My comment about not asking him if he was white was about country of origin and wanting authenticity. I didn't make the leap that because of the colour of his skin, he was Indian-I knew this from talking to his wife. But the leap i did make was in assuming he knew the cuisine because of his COO and also his business.

There is also a specialist Turkish shop nearby and they have a different set of English staff on a Friday who cover for the owners. I wanted to make traditional baklava over Xmas- I waited til the weekend to speak to the Turkish owners as I wanted to get their view on something authentic. The difference here is I go in fairly regularly and so knew they are both avid cooks. This is sort of what I meant by my comment in the OP but I've probably poorly explained it.

And I do agree, as I've said, I did make a leap. But I do also think the man reacting so aggressively has meant I wont be going back. It's his choice to be offended and react, I quite agree...it's also my choice where to shop.

People have lost sight as to what racism really is. My ex-husband could tell you all about what is was like to be a black man in Louisiana in the 1950's. He lived it and it had nothing to do with people politely asking him for cooking tips or recipes.

I'd have told that man in the green grocers that I could tell he knows how to make chips because he has a big one on his shoulder.

The OP knows the individual was born and brought up in India. He runs a shop where he sells Indian food.

She assumed he had some knowledge of cooking relating to the country he was born in and has lived in for most of his life. He now works in a shop selling cooking products from that country.

If we replace French with Indian I don't think we would have an issue.

Cultural assumptions are not racist, in themselves. Negative ones are but I would like someone to explain to me how the situation was rascist. Especially given the nature if the situation, he works in a food shop. So if I go into my local Italian deli and by way of chat ask the Italian shop keeper as I pack the Italian food oroduce he is selling me "By the way how long you do cook your pasta for?", It's rascist? If I'd said O killed any mafis bosses later you stallion of a man, that is probably rascist.

He's not that you asked him because he was Indian. He's deflecting. It's because you asked him at all because he's probably a sexist fuck who never cooks at home and leaves it all to the little wifey. Something which is a misogyny thing not racial.

He just sounds rude to me. I'd stop thinking about it OP.

I'm afraid it was a racist remark.

May I suggest you read, 'Why I Am No Longer Speaking to White People About Race.'

By all means, don't go back if that is the stance you've taken but before you act on that, why not make one more trip to apologise.

Hopefully, he hasn't logged your racist remark with the police.

It’s not racist.

If it was a polish person in food shop and you knew they had lived in Poland, and you asked if they knew how to make pierogi, would that be xenophobic? No.

I've read that book, and I don't think this is racist. I think it's very reductive of a thoughtful book to think that it would support the idea that this was racist.

Hopefully not @aconcertpianist as that would be a terrible waste of police time

‘I need to report a hate crime of racism’
‘Go on’
‘A customer in my shop asked if i had any cooking tips for biriyani’
...tumbleweed

It might have been racist if the OP assumed he was Indian.

The OP knows for a fact he is Indian and he has lived there for most of his life until he came to the U.K.

I have a German friend.

I asked her something about stollen.

She didn't throw a tantrum, she just told me.

I guess I must be racist.

Depends thelost if she is white you were just xenophobic

aconcertpianist Sat 19-Jan-19 16:43:09 I'm afraid it was a racist remark. May I suggest you read, 'Why I Am No Longer Speaking to White People About Race.' By all means, don't go back if that is the stance you've taken but before you act on that, why not make one more trip to apologise. Hopefully, he hasn't logged your racist remark with the police.

Please take me through what this police complaint would be @aconcertpianist

Genuinely and really I would like to understand how this would be seen with such racism that it warrants Police time

And I have already conceded that I did make a leap and I should have established whether he COOKS cuisine from India before asking him

If you had done that he would prob still have accused you of racism op

May I suggest you read, 'Why I Am No Longer Speaking to White People About Race.'

By suggesting this book, are you making an assumption that she's white too?

It is these stupid type of incidents and accusations that devalues real racism.

You were asking a shopkeeper politely for a steer on using some of the products he sells. You were not being racist, he was being a dick. I hope you take your custom elsewhere. And don't change your personality (you sound pleasant) in case you upset an over dramatic shopkeeper.

Hopefully, he hasn't logged your racist remark with the police.

That is some grade A trolling there.

(In the traditional, not the MN sense).