To be shocked that people still think it’s ok to hit their kids?

[MrsMuffins]

Coming out of the supermarket this afternoon, a man was walking towards me with two kids, probably aged 8-10. As I passed him (quite a way away as I was heading towards my car) he said something to the boy along the lines of ‘I’ve f**king told you not to do that’ and sort of lunged at him. The boy literally cowered back, obviously expecting a whack. It really upset me - part of me thinking I wish I’d said something, and the other part shocked that people really think it’s ok to physically intimidate and hit their kids. Is it just me thinking that this kind of thing isn’t acceptable any more?!

This is an interesting subject for me as our child is a four year old, with very complex needs, visual impairment and several diagnoses who often, specifically in busy environments "plays up".

It never ceases to amaze me how many immediate family members and random members of the public will completely uninvited come and tell me "all they need is a good slap/it's called parenting you know". I have had literally dozens of these comments in the last year, so am reassured to see opinions on here do indeed match mine. Trying my level best each day that ends with me feeling utterly defeated and browbeaten, when I doubt myself the most, so good to read how unacceptable this is to most here.

OP FWIW I would have been stunned and saddened to see this too

@Isitcoffeetimeyet
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I’d love to hear the rationale from smackers as to how it works to change behaviour if they think it doesn't Cause distress, pain or fear?

Of course it does. That's exactly how any behaviour technique works. Taking their favourite toy away - distress, fear, emotional pain. Sat in a time out - distress, fear, emotional pain.*

Actually you’re wrong on Several levels. Firstly it’s not how any behaviour technique works - there's Extensive evidence on the efficacy of positive reinforcement which relies on reinforcing desired behaviour.

Secondly smacking is positive punishment - you’re adding an aversive consequence. Both of the examples you’ve given are examples of negative punishment - you’re removing something positive (the toy, social contact). So from a learning point of view they create different emotions. Additionally i’m Not aware of any situations where removing a toy or a timeout creates pain. Perhaps you've Been doing it wrong?

All punishments can be effective at stopping unwanted behaviour but they create negative emotional states which can result in long term consequences. Reinforcement techniques reward desired behaviour and create more positive emotions. As with most techniques, failure is usually due to operator error I.e. parental inconsistency than because a child doesn’t respond

@doubleshotespresso that sounds very challenging, particularly having so little support as those comments sound so unhelpful.
This practice will eventually die off and I believe more and more of us are now following your same ideas
I personally find it impossible to discuss the matter with pro-smacking adults
I am a mum with years of experience working with children, science and psychological studies and training,
But the "it never did me any harm" is too strong a wall to penetrate

You are doing great

Double shot

Mrs would you expect a wife to accept the "odd smack" from her husband? Or an employee from it's boss? Or a stranger from another stranger?

I am totally against smacking kids but this is quite a weak argument really.

A husband who made his wife sit on a step or a specific chair for a certain amount of time specified by him to 'have some time out' would absolutely be deemed abusive as well. Yet that is seen as an acceptable way of disciplining a child.

@doubleshotespresso it sounds like you’re doing a fantastic job in incredibly challenging situation. It’s so tough to stick to your guns with parenting decisions when family members are telling you otherwise, especially when you’re knackered and you just want things to be better - you’ll try anything! I hope you’ve got people around you who support your decisions - the weight of evidence is anti-smacking, as @Veterinari points out.

I'm a single mother to two young boys. I'm small and their father is big and tall. It would be pure insanity for me to give them the impression that hitting is ok.

I'm already thinking through ways to keep my authority when they're much bigger than me, that avenue would be a non-starter...

Don't we also care about our dc's future partners?

@Beerflavourednipples that’s because boundaries should be age appropriate (and I’m not exactly in favour of the naughty step either, I don’t think it works in the long term). But regardless of that argument, it doesn’t make hitting ok, whether it’s your child, partner, or anyone else!

@ElevenSmiles it would be easy to run an anti-smacking campaign, there’s plenty of evidence to show it’s ineffective at best, abusive at worst.

StreetwiseHercules yes, I think you are right, it is identity, it is even evident in the way she speaks, she will say things like I am not the kind of parent who will do such and such, or accept such and such behaviour etc., she is very worried about how her kids' behaviour will reflect on her, as we all are to a degree, but to her it is kind of a point of honour to be in control, and she gets very angry when her kids don't co-operate, as I said, she is a loving mother, but this side of her parenting makes me a little uncomfortable

Oh, and smacking is illegal in many countries by the way, including mine.

I also invite you to reflect on a hypothetical social experiment.

Walk into a new toddler / parent/ play group, imagine the room is full with 30 adults, strangers.

Then imagine you stand up and say in a loud and assertive voice. "I do NOT smack my child"

How do you feel? I would feel absolutely ok with this.

Now, if you are someone who does smack, imagine this, stand up and say "I smack my child"
How do you feel? Would you do it?

Most smacking defenders do so on anonymous forums.

We have given scientific evidence over and over to explain why this is a dying practice.

But then there is also gut feeling. Do people honestly believe it is ok to physically hurt someone that small?
Nope. But they do it and they have to justify it to themselves, because doing that is a lot easier than admitting you are bullying a tiny person.

It's just been made illegal in Jersey, apparently Scotland is next. I hope its not too long before England and Wales follow them.

Yes @planespotting and replace the word smack with hit and I'd imagine people would be even more reluctant to admit it.

Ah @ArtisanPopcorn I thought they meant the same, second language here

If i walked outside now and smacked a random passing stranger, I would either be hit back or be arrested for assault, yet I could hit my defenceless child and somehow that's ok. I just don't understand the law.
What defence does a child have against an adult?
How many mothers have said pick on someone your own size, but yet will hit their child, a fraction of their size.

Jeez, I remember my mum threatening me whenever I was naughty and warning me to wait until my dad was home. He used to beat me with the buckle end of his belt. No idea what I did to deserve that but it hurt so much. Now my mum says I was such a well behaved child......

That's shocking iamtryingveryhard. Horrible to think of a man doing that to his little girl.

@tryingveryhard I got the buckle too, would go to school bruised from ankle all the way up each legs, no one ever said a thing x

That was my stepfather, my mother and him can die screaming as far as I'm concerned x

How vile some of these parents were, to hit your child with the buckle end of a belt? Fucking disgusting.

It’s banned where I live. It’s nothing but physical violence towards vulnerable children and it is inexcusable.

@mightyoak100 give it a minute, someone will come with "didn't do me any harm"

It's even more disgusting that a parent uses a weapon to hit kids.

@planespotting oh there’s been a few of them already

The violence of my childhood made me a very angry individual, but one thing I have never done is harm my children, it made me over protective if anything x