To be shocked that people still think it’s ok to hit their kids?

[MrsMuffins]

Coming out of the supermarket this afternoon, a man was walking towards me with two kids, probably aged 8-10. As I passed him (quite a way away as I was heading towards my car) he said something to the boy along the lines of ‘I’ve f**king told you not to do that’ and sort of lunged at him. The boy literally cowered back, obviously expecting a whack. It really upset me - part of me thinking I wish I’d said something, and the other part shocked that people really think it’s ok to physically intimidate and hit their kids. Is it just me thinking that this kind of thing isn’t acceptable any more?!

I think the thing to clear up here is that there is a clear distinction between smacking as a form of discipline and smacking out of frustration/anger.

No there isn’t. Your intent might be different but the child’s experience is the same - physical assault by an adult who is bigger, stronger and ought to have more control over their actions.

You wanted someone to rationally explain why they smack so here is:
I have 2 DC. DC1 is a usual child. DC2 however is a child like no other I've come across. Just doesn't understand danger. At all. I can explain until I'm blue in the face, prevent and supervise as best I can, but what about those times when I can't supervise properly (in a class of 30 at school, the teacher is distracted and he decides to find out what would happen if he jams a paperclip into a plug socket?).
What I'm saying is I would rather give him a controlled smack than risk him coming to worse harm.

So by that logic would you advocate the teacher using smacking? It seems that he/she is able to keep your child safe in a class of 30 children all day without smacking, so you should be able to also considering you likely don’t often have 30 children to contend with.

We banned corporal punishment on schools as it was recognised to be detrimental. Why is then acceptable for parents with many fewer children to ‘control’ to use physical assault?

illustrated by several posters on here who say a ‘light smack on the hand’ is ok. A - I don’t believe that has any effect whatsoever, and B - no way is that all they do, because when the light hit doesn’t have an effect, they’ll escalate to hitting harder until it does.

In fact research shows that in order for punishment to be effective as a learning tool it has to be significantly aversive - creating fear, pain or distress - if it doesn’t it’s not effective as a ‘consequence’ - it’s basic operant conditioning.

@IsItCoffeeTimeYet just rereading your post and to answer a couple of questions. Smoking in confined spaces with a child present - I.e a car - is now illegal. It is definitely seen as significantly detrimental to a child’s health; not sure you can say it’s ‘not as bad as’ or ‘worse than’ physical violence, the two aren’t really comparable.

Physically restraining someone to stop them from hurting themselves or others is not the same as hitting them in order to hurt them and therefore control their behaviour. Or try to - evidently the way you hit your son has absolutely zero effect on his behaviour, as he continues to act out despite you hitting him.

Smacking is not great but this horrendous mollycoddling that is the norm now is more damaging. Kids have no resiliance. A firm but fair way is best. Mind you i am not the perfect mum and my parenting is not perfect so what would i know?

OP, surely you knew this thread would turn into a argument before long?

I've not (yet) smacked either of my two kids. But they are toddlers and barely 2 (twins). My hubby and I haven't even yet had a serious discussion about how we plan to discipline them when the time comes.

But will I end up, at some point, giving them the odd smack on the hand or bum? You know what? Probably.

My husband and I grew up in the late 80s/90s. My parents in particularly, were actually fairly liberal for the times, but we were both smacked when we were naughty, and never thought anything of it.

I'm also a primary school teacher, and this conversation came up in my Year One class maybe two or three years ago, where we were reading a story together in which one of the characters was threatened with a smack from a parent. During discussions, in the group of about 12 kids I had in front of me, only one of them claimed to have NEVER been smacked.
This particularly school was very "leafy, upper-middle class" (much like the Mumsnet readership I imagine!), and in that particular sample of kids, 90% of them had been smacked at some point.
In all the years I've taught, I'm very much of the impression that "smack-free" homes are in the minority... Perhaps it doesn't happen as much as it did when we were young, but it's still very much out there.

But that’s the point @malificent7 - it’s not one or the other, smack or ‘mollycoddle’. You can parent without hitting, or screaming and swearing for that matter, and still have lovely, kind, considerate, well behaved children.

@zingally I’m honestly shocked at how many people think hitting is ok.

Very concerning views from a primary school teacher.

People with such messed up views will always have justifications for their actions, like that's ok

Ok I was smacked as a child but very rarely. I'm not traumatised by it etc but I do remember the fear.
I think that parenting classes should be taught for many people.
Seen too many cases of low level neglect in my life and there are sadly no repercussions.
The way some children are spoken to is despicable. My dd (7) was called posh once at soft play for saying "pardon?" to another child. Said child then called her a twat.
Parents laughed when i spoke to them.

I actually despair when i hear the way some
people behave. Two wrongs don't make a right.

@zingally but why do you assume you will hit? Is it because you imagine there will come a time when your parenting techniques no longer work, or that you’ll be so at the end of your tether you’re bound to lash out? Why not plan to develop your parenting so that you can manage their changing behaviour?

Trouble is i know patents who are actually scared to discipline their kids. For example some people tjink its wrong to shout at kids. I do it occassionally and it works as its the only thing dd will listen to....occassionally i might add. I am human. I have limits. Kids need to respect those limits...as do adults.

Sorry for typos...

So disturbing posts from people working in childcare and primary schools

So = some

Yes and no. My parents slapped me occasionally, it didn't hurt and it sas for the wrong reasons. Such as i turned around and couldn't see my mum so got upset and got a smack. Nothing hard or anything, now of a tap but quickly learnt to not give hoot where my mum was ever again.

When I was much younger I also saw this lady in a charity shop really slap her child hard on her back cos she'd picked up a toy. I didn't know what to do myself at the time. It's stayed with me.

I don't have kids (ttc) and I don't intend on ever hitting my children. But I guess never say never depending on circumstance... I think It'd have to be extreme. Such as if they were about to run into a busy road or if they behaved in a particularly bad way though I'm not sure what that would be. And hopefully they wouldn't do it in the first place if I bring them up correctly!

I watched a documentary on YouTube about a parent who believed in smacking. The kids were just being kids and the smack was probably not painful, but obviously it's the action. If you give your wrist a light slap on the wrist it doesn't hurt does it?

It didn't seem to do any good though. The kid cried but the behaviour came back the next day. They still did a lot of nice positive things with them and praised them for good behaviour. And got time out and an explanation as to why etc. They said they probably have their kids at least one smack each a week.

I doubt it would really have huge negative effects on that child, although obviously the slapping works probably no better than the non slapping method, I thought they were really missing the point. Maybe these kids grow up with a fraction less trust in their parents. Maybe just enough to never feel that close to their parents. Or who knows.

I don't think their choice made a positive difference so what is the point?

99.9% against.

Hand smacker here...not a liar....not a violent abuser, my now well balanced adult kids don't even remember the odd smack at 3/4 guess you could say the proof's in the pudding.

@ElevenSmiles I just don’t understand this rationale. Either you hit them hard enough to hurt - which I presume is the aim, to punish them or to (try to) deter them from repeating the behaviour, or you ‘smack’ their hand lightly - in which case it doesn’t hurt and so neither punishes nor deters them. Which is it?

We were all smacked, or threatened with a smack, by our parents way back in the '60s and '70s. It was a very effective deterrent - scared the shit out of me personally - but I don't agree that the end justifies the means.

Ah yes the cuddle afterwards. My dad would spank me and then straight afterwards would hold me in a cuddle/restraint position against him. I would not be allowed out of this position until I had stopped crying and given him and my mother a 'proper' cuddle.

The absolute rage and humiliation I felt at this was damaging.

I still just don't understand it at all.

I know not everyone does that but I just feel that if hitting is allowed into your parenting plan, it becomes more and more acceptable. You may say it's just for keeping the child safe etc but again it's shit and actually vengeful parenting.

Like a PP I feel very sick thinking about it.

As I said OP the proof's in the pudding....How old are your kids?

My parents (well my mum) used to give me the odd smack and I don’t think it’s damaged me but I still wouldn’t do it to my own. My h is opposed to hitting as well. How do you supposedly encourage good behaviour by violence?

When I was a child I had a friend whose mum used to beat her with a wooden clog for minor misdemeanours (being cheeky etc). I remember once going to her house and looking in her window and seeing her crying no no no and the mum pinning her to the couch and hitting her on the bare legs with a wooden clog. It was horrible.

@ElevenSmiles DS is 2.5, and before you say ‘wait til he’s older’ etc etc - I’ve worked with at risk young people for over ten years, and I’ve never ever seen a behaviour that I thought would warrant someone hitting them, or in fact where I thought hitting would change their behaviour in any way.

Timeouts were my go-to punishment with my own children. When they're very little, reasoning isn't that effective so I understand how a smack on the bottom was a last resort, knee-jerk punishment for things like repeatedly running away from mummy or daddy into a busy road. But ultimately unacceptable: how can you tell your children that hitting is wrong when you do it yourself?

Wet behind the ears then OP.....come back when you have my experience 34yrs.

*I used to hit mine but now it's unacceptable and I get that I really do. But I don't like being judged for smacking my kids when it was the usual way when I was raising them.

"We did what we did knowing what we knew. And when we knew better, we did better"*

^. This