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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If there was another Brexit referendum would you vote the same way?

523 replies

marmeladerose · 14/01/2019 20:26

By the way I am not for another Brexit referendum but I am seeing a lot about it on the news/social media and it got be wondering what everyone would vote if it did happen and what did you vote before? I voted remain and would vote remain again.

OP posts:
callmeadoctor · 15/01/2019 19:20

Remain, but would now definitely leave!

Rosejasmine · 15/01/2019 19:21

Voted remain then and would do again now.
I remember hearing ardent Brexit supporters just after the referendum saying that Britain had all the power, we were too important to Europe to not get what we wanted, They really thought that we were so crucial to Europe that they would roll over and give us what we wanted. Why the Fuck should they? This debacle is ridiculous, you couldn't make it up.
I am extremely worried about deep recession, job losses, losing investors, chaos with supply chains. I used to work as a business advisor in a chamber of commerce specialising in international trade. If there is no deal we are in a very bad situation indeed and it's heartbreaking.

OffToBedhampton · 15/01/2019 19:23

Leave then, Leave now.

But then I researched it thoroughly right from the start, as it is a huge decision that we have to get right for future generations. There were and still are strong and complex arguments for both sides and I was never swayed by easy nor inflated promises in the first place. I continue to keep an open mind and listen to logical debate but was mindful that short term pain for long term stability, opportunity, growth is paramount & of a real concern at instability of certain parts of EU that appears to be on the cards but being muted at the moment with focus on Brexit . I think "Better out than in" over next 20-30 years.

As an aside, I am mightily relieved that the rise of the far right in UK abated. And I would like to see fairer immigration rules for all other countries (including Asia, India and Americas African nations) than just favouring predominately white Europeans but not looking at skills mix. UK was always good at global relations (once we stopped colonizing 🤐🤐)

The difficulty was asking for a decision so huge & wide reaching without any clear fully formed ideas communicated to voters of how it should look if/when we left nor clarity about the fracturing that we might be pulled into in EU if we stay.

The Leavers I know haven't changed their minds. But I respect both sides and in my social and educational circles (mostly postgrads) we've had lively debates, split almost two thirds leave to just over one third remain, none of which has involved silly stereotyping nor name calling! I'm SE England People can debate well when they are listened to.
I appreciate other areas have different splits.

Do I think our elected politicians will negotiate & weather us through a difficult and unsettling period? Yes. (Though it's not looking great right now, !!!, I believe they'll get there) And I'm not Tory! (Am LibDem/ Labour, depending on their current policies, never Ukip!) . I don't think JC could lead us through this rn though.

I have faith. I want to reassure Remainers that there are successful countries even in Europe that aren't part of the EU as it stands. We need better negotiators.

And we aren't leaving ECHR. That's separate.

elvis86 · 15/01/2019 19:23

I don't believe that there should be another referendum, but I'm another who voted Remain in 2016, but would actually vote Leave if asked now. Happy to share some of my reasoning.

There's a popular belief that a lot of Leave voters voted Leave for ignorant, ill-informed reasons (e.g. because they're racists or because they lapped up propoganda from the Leave campaign).

However to be honest, my original Remain vote was equally uninformed. I voted Remain because I didn't know much about it all, and I bought into the scare-mongering from the Remain campaign - I suspect the same is true of a lot of Remain voters who remain ardently committed to a Remain position, holding up the concept of the EU as a progressive, Utopian community whilst in reality knowing little about it.

In the past couple of years I've changed my mind, and significantly I have come to appreciate that there is a left-wing argument for leaving the EU, which has unfortunately never really gained coverage, allowing the propogagation of the idea that Leave is a right-wing position and shutting down reasoned debate.

Fundamentally I believe the scope of the EU has grown too far beyond an economic community, it serves big businesses over people, and it represents huge amounts of uneccessary bureaucracy, putting further distance between people and those making decisions about their lives.

Remainers point to the many ways the UK benefits from EU funding as a reason to stay. But the UK are a net contributer to the EU - any funding we get out is ultimately funded by what we pay in. It's massively inefficient to send money into a huge organisation like the EU, on the basis of the benefits that are spat out the other end via EU funding. It also puts further distance between UK taxpayers and decisions as to how that money should be spent. It would be more efficient for the UK to determine how that money is spent domestically.

I'm dismayed at how difficult it is proving to be to exit the EU. When you consider that we originally joined an economic community in pursuit of economic integration, and remained in after a single referendum over 40 years ago, I think it's incredible how the scope and power of the organisation has grown, and how incredibly difficult it's proving to unpick.

Received wisdom at the moment is that EU membership has economic benefits for the UK. But if this position changed, I'm uncomfortable at the degree to which the UK is entwined with the EU. And economists do get things wrong - it was generally thought that we should join the Euro, but it's now widely accepted that we were right not to.

If the benefits of EU membership are such a no-brainer for all member states, I don't understand why the EU is so evidently rattled by the UK's decision to leave?

Freedom of movement gives EU residents (who are predominantly white) preferential treatment in terms of their right to enter the UK over citizens from none-EU countries (e.g. African countries, where the population is predominantly black). In this sense you could argue that FOM is actually inherently racist. It would be fairer to apply the same immigration rules and opportunities to citizens from all countries.

I don't think it's right that the rest of the UK should be held over a barrel because of the Irish border. The population of Northern Ireland is dwarfed by the populations of some urban areas (e.g. the West Midlands and Greater Manchester) - it's not right that NI should be wielding such disproportionate power over this issue.

I'm a reasonable, liberal person and I don't fit the stereotype of a Leave voter at all. But I will vote Leave if we have another referendum.

Lots of people would be shocked in RL to know my position - it's an unfortunate symptom of the toxicity of the whole situation that I don't feel able to be public about my position.

Kemer2018 · 15/01/2019 19:23

Voted leave then and now. I accept there will be consequences....if anyone in power can actually be specific about these, that would be helpful.

Icantberudeitsmyjobatstake · 15/01/2019 19:24

The whole point of a representative democracy is that MPs are not delegates. MPs are informed and make decisions in the best interest of the country. You vote for someone (not a party a person) who you believe will act in your best interests.

That makes Cameron's referendum decision even more of a debacle.

OffToBedhampton · 15/01/2019 19:29

Argh I put paragraphs in, even double line spaces between, but MN Talk App just makes it look like one long paragraph. I wish MN site would sort out their Talk App formatting. 😶😶

OffToBedhampton · 15/01/2019 19:35

@Elvis86 we posted at same and I agree with many of your points which you have been kind enough to share.

londonmummy2 · 15/01/2019 19:40

Well said @elvis86 👏🏼

I too am not a stereotypical Leave voter. I live in a heavily Remain-leaning constituency in Central London, we are very "middle class" and a lot of people would assume I voted Remain. I actually grew up in a non-EU country and we survived without the EU and without it's 4 freedoms!

elvis86 · 15/01/2019 19:48

Yes OffToBedhampton, I thought that was a bit of a coincidence!

wizzler · 15/01/2019 19:52

Leave then leave now

simplesalvage · 15/01/2019 20:12

So that is that deal voted down then.

RedWineIsFabulous · 15/01/2019 20:16

Elvis86

Thank you for such an articulate and honest post.

Moussemoose · 15/01/2019 20:20

elvis86 and the arguments you put forward are the only credible Brexit arguments I've heard.

However, for you arguments to hold you have to be confident we will have a left of centre government who will work for the good of working class people in the U.K. i believe under FPTP that will never happen.

If we change the electoral system and then look at Brexit I'll listen. Now? No way. Faced with governments in thrall to big business and the need to appease middle England to gain power the EU is a guaranteed basic rights.

Basic rights a Tory government would throw away and then burn.

why100000 · 15/01/2019 20:23

Received wisdom at the moment is that EU membership has economic benefits for the UK

Nothing received about it. The issue of funding is dwarfed by the benefits in terms of trade.

And the Tories will not fund those areas which have historically been funded by the EU.

Buttercupsandaisies · 15/01/2019 20:31

Leave then and leave now. Most leave voters are not as open about their choices so numbers will be much higher than predicted. Also the very fact another referendum is being held will be a catalyst for many remainers on the fence to vote leave in protest.

Most remain voters I know (north west) are very very against another referendum believing that following through on te vote is more important

TheGoogleMum · 15/01/2019 20:46

Remain then and remain now. For a long time I felt another referendum was a bad idea even though the vote didn't go the way I hoped. You can't keep asking people to vote until they vote 'correctly'. I'm currently thinking it is a good idea though, the leave campaign broke laws and really the question shouldn't be leave or remain it should be what type of leave or remain. Ideally alternative vote should be used to get the best compromise for everyone. Won't happen though.

Ragaroo · 15/01/2019 20:47

Leave, and leave again. Just because the govt is purposely cocking it up to swing us into another referendum doesn't mean my reasoning has changed.

FreshFreesias · 15/01/2019 20:51

I wasn't sure at the time but voted Remain.
I feel I was lied to - since the Referendum have learnt a lot more and would now vote to Leave.
The EU have behaved appallingly and the sooner we leave the corrupt, unaudited shower the better IMO.
I know several who feel the same but don't dare admit this publicly for being shouted down.

FreshFreesias · 15/01/2019 20:56

Great, reasoned and succinct post @elvis86.

Glitterbug76 · 15/01/2019 21:09

Leave and would vote leave again , I know lots of people out side the EU who are extremely skilled professionals who have to jump through hoops to get into this county and support our enconomy and infrastructure. I also hear of small businesses not be afforded opportunity to make links with the rest of the world due to being tied in to the EU.
I don't think we would be having this nearly 2 years later by the leave voters if the vote had been in favour of remain. We should have used the last 2 years to look at starting to look at building links with other countries.
No one from either side has faith in the politicians now , you might as well live in a dictatorship. We voted out but looks like that counts for nothing.

Parker231 · 15/01/2019 21:15

Rangeroo and Glitterbug - as leave voters how would you resolve the Northern Ireland border issue without breaching the GF Agreement and how would you protect our supply chain post 29 March?

maddiemookins16mum · 15/01/2019 21:17

Remain and still remain. The leavers have a lot to answer for.

Clavinova · 15/01/2019 21:24

You are finding experts to support your stance. Leavers will find the same to support theirs
Go on then! you'll find Mitford and that's about all

I've just googled this - there is actually a pro-Brexit advocacy group led by Mitford - Economists for Free Trade. You will recognise a few familiar faces amongst the advisors!
www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/

On the other hand, almost half of the signatories in the group Economists for Remain could in fact be EU/non-British citizens - you can hardly blame them for advising us to stay in the EU;
economistsforremain.org/

One economist I do recognise on the list is Diane Coyle - quoted in The Guardian yesterday as she is stockpiling in case of a 'no deal';
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/i-dont-trust-the-government-to-look-after-me-or-my-dog-meet-the-brexit-stockpilers

LynseyLou1982 · 15/01/2019 21:33

I voted remain and would do so again without hesitation. The whole thing is just a massive embarrassing debacle.

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