re school exclusion

[mummy207]

I posted a while back about my DS being inappropriate at school, he asked a teacher to add him on snapchat and was isolated for it. The reactions on here were split between whether this was an overreaction by the school or acceptable. I accepted it and sanctioned him at home and fully supported the school after reading all of your helpful responses. Lots of teachers responded.

Unfortunately today there has been a follow up and I have been told my son needs to be excluded tomorrow and stay at home. I totally agree he is being absolutely unacceptable , he apparently lifted his top up and asked the teacher whether she liked his abs. I know it's fucking insane, don't get me started.

They have said because this is his second "Sexually inappropriate offense" (question whether the snapchat thing was sexually inappropriate!!) , he needs an external exclusion which will go on his record. Although I agree he is in the wrong, this again to me seems really ridiculous. What is making him sit at home all day going to achieve? He will be on xbox! Also some of his peers have had several fights, bullying, etc and not been excluded. Exclusions are really rare. I am absolutely devastated. Is there anything I can do about this? It says on the paperwork I can challenge the exclusion?

I meant, is she really going to agree with a group of strangers online that her son is potentially a sexual deviant? Especially when that group have been as nasty as some of you lot have been?

It’s not a matter of agreeing with a load of strangers online as to a diagnosis or labelling your child in a certain way.
It’s about dealing with a distressing situation that has huge potential impact on your child’s education, future and ,indeed, that of other children who are possibly at risk

And, lovingbenidorm, how many of us would absolutely deny our own DCs would behave inappropriately on any level, but the reality is that we can never be absolutely sure that they don’t. I know parents who are totally oblivious to their teens smoking weed for example and will tell anyone who will listen what decent well behaved DCs they have. Please don’t be so delusional that you think your DCs are perfect. It might not be the case.

but I can see his actions being that of a silly immature teenager not automatically a pervert.
As many of us have said, it doesn't mean he will be some predator opt rapist for sure. But how boys are taught to treat women makes a difference to how they behave when older.
E.g. if a boy is allowed to believe that it's just banter to continue pushing his luck on a woman who has categorically rejected him, then it's highly likely that he is probably going to be the type of man in pubs who thinks pushing his luck is acceptable or a woman who is clearly not interested is just 'playing hard to get because who wouldn't want a piece of this'.

As I mentioned up thread, silly immature teenagers make mistakes, they do and that's normal.
Teenagers will often have crushes on teachers, that's normal.
Sometimes they let it on more than they realise and we turn a blind eye to spare them the embarrassment, that's normal.

What isn't normal (so shouldn't be played down as immature and silly) is making suggestive comments to a member of staff in front of the class to make her feel awkward or undermined and then having been told quite explicitly that your actions were totally and utterly unacceptable, go back to the same member of staff, lift your clothes and suggest she checks your body out. That's weird and a sign of someone with awful views of women.

Equally, it may be more common than we would like for teens to send self created indecent images. Silly and naive teens would be someone who sent one to a boyfriend/girlfriend without thinking, and whilst illegal is something that happens and can be put down to growing up with technology, not thinking etc. But it's not normal or silly or immature to be collecting multiple sexual images of girls in your year, exchanging explicit messages with someone you're "seeing" and then play it all down claiming 'well everyone does it.. oh she was throwing herself at me'

Normal would be a parent, on hearing their child was making flirty and suggestive comments to a teacher and suggesting they add them on Snapchat, making it totally and utterly clear that they support the school and how dare you ever speak to your teacher like that. Not normal is deciding 'but my DS said it was a joke and I believe him'.

Normal parenting is to be outraged on finding out your child has been making and sharing indecent images of children (because peer to peer messaging still counts) and removing privileges, not giving him a cuddle and patting him on the head because he said that the girls just happen to send him all these nude shots for no reason other than they must all fancy him and he has never encouraged it.

Livelovebehappy I can assure you that I do not think my dc are perfect. Yes, of course, anyone is capable of inappropriate behaviour, not least teenagers. To accuse me of being ‘delusional ‘ is misinformed and very wrong.
My point was that a situation where a 15yo has nude pictures of children on his phone (not forgetting the teacher business) needs serious intervention.

I don't think anyone is disputing that the nude photos are disturbing and that the OP's DS needs to be made to see how serious this is, and the school needs to be informed, as it involves girls in his class.

And yes, the attitude he displays to women in general is misogynistic (as demonstrated in his behaviour towards the teacher) and that does need to be firmly challenged. The OP did (admittedly belatedly) take that on board and handled it well in the end. Hopefully she'll take on board what posters have said about the nude photos, too, but I don't think you going on berating her is going to make her more likely to listen. She'll probably just hide the thread.

If you are still reading this, though, OP, you really do need to involve the school, not just decide it's inappropriate. They need to know, as do the parents of the girls whose nude pics were saved on his phone. (I have DDs and I would definitely want to know about something like that!) It will be embarrassing, but that will be no bad thing for him, he needs to face up to this.

"He's 15 years old." And?

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/15-year-old-boy-raped-15267975

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/mother-teenager-took-life-rape-trial-appalled-girls-thong-used/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-was-raped-by-a15-year-old-boy-xdf8g8qgw

15 year old boys can be strong and powerful and often taller and heavier than many full grown women. My dd is 17, she towers over my 5' 2" and her male friends have been taller and stronger than me since they were 13/14.

The point myself & others are making by saying this needs to be taken seriously is because sexual predators are not created overnight. Hell even sexually motivated serial killers start by things like voyeurism & flashing!

We're not saying that's what's going to happen here (it's more complex than that) but certainly that op's son is displaying very worrying attitudes to girls & women that need strongly corrected ASAP.

It's as much for his benefit as the women. His school are already clearly saying they won't tolerate it, if he continues at school he could well end up expelled at a crucial time. If he behaves at school but doesn't really change his mindset then behaves similarly at college, uni or work he could be bounced out of them, pretty hard to get a decent job if you've a reputation as a sexual harasser (especially now thankfully, hopefully the tide is turning #metoo). As long as it's true a former employer is within their rights to say why someone was sacked.

"It doesn't mean that she won't sanction him in RL." She even said herself all that would happen with his suspension is he'd be sat on his Xbox all day! It hadn't even occurred to her to check his phone!

"The ones that are, and the parents that think this is “just what teenagers do” need a bloody good kick up the arse.
It’s the bloody complacency that is so fucking depressing" and frustrating.

No child is perfect & never does anything wrong - the point is when they do you correct them.

You also monitor the equipment they have access to - again as much for their protection as anything else. If op had been in the habit of checking her DS' phone regularly perhaps a comment or image might have indicated where his attitude to women was going & he could have been steered right even before the snapchat incident?

15 is actually pretty old for a child. 15 is on the cusp of adulthood.

Good luck @mummy207 I think you've listened to criticism on this thread and sound like you're trying to do your best.

You cannot let your son see that you are in any way cross with the school. You MUST backup the school 100%.

Why? Because your son has at 15 seriously disrespected his teacher and the school. He’s an issue. So what if the school are going heavy. Their school, their policies. He’s in the wrong.

The central lesson here is for your boy to respect others, so respect their decision yourself and back them up 100%

My Dd had an ethics lesson on consent/ photo sharing yesterday and it reminded me of this thread. I was wondering, how did the meeting go with the Head of Year? Did you mention the photos?

He's recently become obsessed with going to the gym and apparently some girls were commenting on his abs (I know, vomit) and so he said he didn't even think and asked the teacher what she thought of them! I can't even look at him, I'm so furious at him.

Exactly how does that happen in a normal school day? Sounds more like he was flashing the girls then the teacher.

I'm 5ft 0, year 7 students are often taller than me, and a 15 year old can be physically intimidating.

Sorry OP but you have raised a young man who doesn't understand boundaries or respect females.

This is MUCH WORSE than getting into a fight. You need to see how serious it is.

text DH to tell him to get his arse back to england because our son is becoming a sexual predator, and he replied "get the fuck off mumsnet" - thats meant to be tongue in cheek btw)
Well they say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree OP.....and judging by your dh's attitude I can see why your son thinks and acts the way he does....
I bet you've been minimising your dh's sexism and misogyny too - or would if you recognized it or had it pointed out to you.

Your dh seems to think his job as a parent is to just donate sperm and money....because HE, his 'career', his dreams, MONEY is far more important than being physically present in his dc lives and actually being a hands-on parent and bringing them up.
I bet he thinks that's YOUR job as a woman....along with managing house admin, dc admin/appointments, housework etc.
He's basically an absent parent with a shitty attitude.

You can always take your son down to the police station and have an officer explain to you both exactly what sexual harassment means, it's consequences on the victims and what kind of conviction/jail time etc he'd be looking at if he does this and gets caught once he's 18 or over.

I don't think the OP will be coming back somehow.

I think she'll come back with a name change in ohhhh about a month to complain about sons expulsion

You may be right, and she's a glutton for punishment (she enjoys the notoriety, I think!)