re school exclusion

[mummy207]

I posted a while back about my DS being inappropriate at school, he asked a teacher to add him on snapchat and was isolated for it. The reactions on here were split between whether this was an overreaction by the school or acceptable. I accepted it and sanctioned him at home and fully supported the school after reading all of your helpful responses. Lots of teachers responded.

Unfortunately today there has been a follow up and I have been told my son needs to be excluded tomorrow and stay at home. I totally agree he is being absolutely unacceptable , he apparently lifted his top up and asked the teacher whether she liked his abs. I know it's fucking insane, don't get me started.

They have said because this is his second "Sexually inappropriate offense" (question whether the snapchat thing was sexually inappropriate!!) , he needs an external exclusion which will go on his record. Although I agree he is in the wrong, this again to me seems really ridiculous. What is making him sit at home all day going to achieve? He will be on xbox! Also some of his peers have had several fights, bullying, etc and not been excluded. Exclusions are really rare. I am absolutely devastated. Is there anything I can do about this? It says on the paperwork I can challenge the exclusion?

If this is fake, this bit was quite clever:

The pictures of girls yes I assume were his classmates

I read that as meaning that the pictures belonged to his classmate/s. It was only when others pointed it out I realised that I'd wrongly assumed an apostrophe had been omitted, and that the girls in the pics were classmates.

nottakingthisanymore
In one situation I was in the boy's parents took the line of 'boys will be boys' and 'it's just banter'. The implication was that staff should have been flattered and we were over reacting.

It's also not unheard of for some parents to defend their child swearing at staff, assaulting staff and students. Some people are, sadly, very quick to excuse awful behaviours.

We'd like to think this situation is fanciful, but who knows.

I can see the situation being true but the posting on mumsnet (albeit for the wrong reason) suggests she cares and is a proactive parent whereas her posts show that she actually isn’t.

Or soconfused she cares about the impact of this on her innocent son who is being wrongly vilified by school and was hoping for some support/conformation that school was outrageous.

It’s a difficult situation. I think some PPs are baying for your blood a little bit. I think it’s easy though to pass off as teenage behaviour when there is a serious undertone. I remember at school girls sent nudes and they were circulated amongst everyone. Nobody really did much about it then, but we had no social media in that time so it couldn’t escalate in the way it can now. I have a friend who teaches in a secondary school and she admits one of the biggest problems is girls sending pictures of themselves that are then shared around & posted online, so it’s not an isolated situation. I appreciate your son is 15, wants to be in with the ‘lads’ And to go against the grain would probably see him pushed out from his group of friends. However he does need to be taught a level of respect for girls and women, if you have daughters ask him how he’d feel if he saw such pictures of his sisters. You do need keep the punishment up, keep a more regular eye on his phone, keep an eye on his social media activity, keep in touch with the school and keep tabs on his behaviour, if you take your eye off the ball he will slip back into the cycle again.

Your son is a teenager who will grow into a sexually aggressive man if you dont clamp down on this
I have a 15 year old son and they can be assholes but mine has been brought up to respect women and be respectful of them and towards them

You need to be coming down hard on this or god help the women he meets in the future

I think people are forgetting that the OP's son is also a child too.

I agree that he has crossed the line and that the sanctions put in place by the school are appropriate.

I would also be requesting a meeting with the pastoral link for the year group and mentioning the photos.

It is likely that the young people in the images and sharing them have not considered the consequences of their actions and this needs addressing as a whole school issue not just the OPs son.

How he behaves from now on will be an indication of the man he will become. Now that he is fully aware of the situation and why his actions are so wrong.

My now 17 year old has NEVER had pictures of naked classmates on his phone and he and his friends do not receive them.

I know because When he was at that age I could see his phone. Also he spoke about it many times: he started a conversation with me about how upset and angry he was that his female peers were getting sexually harassed as a matter of course in tne street, and how could he support them.

You and your DH need to have a very serious talk with your Ds about sexual politics. About objectifying women. Respecting women and their minds and bodies.

I would have gone mental at my DH had he given that response to my concerns about my son’s behaviour. I wouldn’t have repeated it as a witty joke.

You have a very short space of time now to get some awareness into your son’s head.

To be honest I would be seeking professional advice if my son thought it was ok to go around with pictures of naked classmates on his phone.

And who else does or doesn’t do it is of no interest, e curly to be horrified. But if this is the culture surrounding your son you need to rescue him.

How he behaves from now on will be an indication of the man he will become. Now that he is fully aware of the situation and why his actions are so wrong.

Well this is the second incident in a few months.

The OP and her DH reactions say it all tbh.

"Punished for inappropriate behaviour before... ?? But to him to two actions may appear poles apart. Asking someone to add them on social media. Asking someone to look at their belly. 2 entirely different actions." With the SAME teacher - he's not stupid he knows he's out of line!

"Besides, if the OP actually took this as a serious red light, she'd go and arrange a meeting with the school to find out if there were any minor incidents leading up to the expulsion incident for a fuller picture of the context." Instead she keeps looking to blame ANYONE else BUT her son!

"Give it to the summer and she will e back, name changed, bemoaning the fact her son can’t do his GCSEs because he has been permanently excluded." Yep wouldn't surprise me.

FUCKING HELL! You're STILL MINIMISING LOADS!!!

He's SENDING nudes - is there ANY chance that these are of under 18's? Because if so that is possession & distribution of indecent images of CHILDREN and that CAN get him on the SOR.

You keep banging on HE is "just a child" well they're someone's daughters! If one of their parents discover this they are perfectly within their rights (legally & morally) to report him to police - I would! How's a conviction like that going to affect his future?

I believe (certainly true where I live) schools tell pupils this law and educate/advise them on sm use. Certainly dd and her friends were well aware from talks given and the issues being incorporated into certain subjects on Internet safety and laws.

And NO not "everyone" does this, certainly not at that age!

Tell the school. Get him a basic phone that texts & calls only he's clearly too immature & irresponsible to handle a smart phone THAT is what you do MINIMUM!

"Do most parents of year 11s look through all their children's phones and social media daily?" Maybe not daily but regularly like 2-3 times a week? Yes!!!

"But a couple of nudes, pics of his abs etc. No dick pics." Have you looked through ALL the apps? Inc ones he's deleted? (If you check his iTunes account it'll show which apps he's had now or in past) some look like they're other things precisely to hide things from parents, there's "discreet" photo storage apps etc. You need to educate yourself on child Internet safety ASAP.

http://www.carolinaparent.com/CP/Secret-Apps-Your-Teen-May-Be-Using-to-Hide-Photos-Videos-Messages-and-Files/

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/tech/mobile/are-your-kids-using-secret-apps-to-hide-their-stuff

Google "ghost apps" "child online safety tips" etc. His schools safeguarding officer may be able to advise too.

His feelings for her are irrelevant, how she feels in his presence (which putting it mildly is irritated, more likely unsafe) IS relevant. Your husbands attitude is shit and also needs addressing.

That he thinks his being attracted to her ENTITLES him to behave at best inappropriately at worst threateningly you REALLY need to address. It's the basic underlying problem with stalkers & worse predators. They think it's only their feelings that count, they don't actually care about their victims feelings.

"Well done for addressing it with him OP." But she hasn't! She's basically gave him a cuddle and said mummy will make it all go away!!

"I very much doubt your DH would be laughing about it if a 15 year old had nude pictures of your DD would he." Definitely! But it's fine and "boys will be boys" "he's a bit of a lad" when it's his son having such pics I suspect.

"I'm assuming that you at least keep an eye on his siblings Internet use?" I highly doubt it given the incredulous responses to monitoring her sons online activity!

The utterly lax parenting is shocking! I understand those questioning the veracity, sadly as someone who's worked in a voluntary capacity with teens and has a fair number of family and friends who are teachers I'm all too aware that there are some appallingly passive & complacent parents out there.

If he were my son:

Phone, Xbox & gym would be gone! Indefinitely until he can prove he has the maturity and responsibility to deserve them and be able to use them appropriately.

Grounded for a month.

Set to researching the effects on victims of harassment, having their indecent photos distributed/commented on.

Revision for exams his primary occupation when home.

And I'd be alerting the school to the issue with the photographs. This could possibly result in permanent exclusion and if so tough! The protection of those girls is more important.

Those poor, poor girls. I guess you and your DH wouldn't be as happy if it was your daughter's nudes being sent around

Re the 'poor poor girls'

Obviously if these images are sent to all and sundry, I agree this is dispicable and should be reported etc.

But I suspect (in fact know from talking to dd14) many of her friends have sent nudes to boys. Quite willingly in fact. They have not been coerced.

One girl in her year had created a special file on her phone of all the dick pics, dodgy photos, a video of one girl shaving her pubes  and much more.

A couple of her friends have been threatened with having their nudes spread around unless they go on dates etc.

This is the world so very many of our teenagers are exposed to. Not all, but so many.

And like I said before, dick pics happen all the fecking time to dd. She just deletes them, or sends a response such as 'ew that's gross' to them. She is persistently asked to reciprocate.

I don't know what the answer is. And @Nanny0gg no I didn't tell the police about the dick pic she showed me. I've no idea who's dick it was!!

Now I've fully read everything. Wow. Your dh is part of the problem. I wonder if he approaches women with the same attitude if he's so willing to brush this away.

For context one of my sons has behavioural and mental disabilities and goes to an appropriate school. When I found sexual images on his phone I called the school safeguarding officer and asked for help in managing the situation. Be both agreed in a police officer speaking with him about the implications and consequences (he had been sent pics and was asked to send some back) his school did a whole school online awareness course and my son did an individual safety online course. I also had the police contact the girls family. My son is considered a vulnerable student because of his disabilities but we still approached things so he knew it wasn't OK and it was appropriate for any to ask him for pictures and made it clear he must never ask and always tell an adult if it happened again. He had to earn his rights to the Internet back by doing the courses, keeping communication open and by showing maturity. He now volunteers to have an app on there allowing monitoring and anything that's deemed ages 15 or older requires a password only my dh and the school safeguarding team has.

He learnt a lot even with his conditions and had sanctions in place to learn. He wasn't at fault but we still took the approach so he knew right from wrong.
Your son has no issues regarding mental health so needs to learn. Report the pictures at the VERY LEAST to the school. Those are someone's CHILD too.

He will thank you one day for caring enough to do what's right and steer him on the right path.

The authorities would rather help now to educate then to prosecute later on

But I suspect (in fact know from talking to dd14) many of her friends have sent nudes to boys. Quite willingly in fact. They have not been coerced.

Unless you know first hand from these girls, what the context is and exactly what has happened, you cannot in anyway know this for sure.

People are saying ‘poor girls’ because of the fact that this is an awful situation to be in, even the fact that some girls may see this as what is expected of them and have no real idea of exactly what else can be done with those images. Because so many parents obviously tolerate this or turn a blind eye, the message sent is that this is the norm for them. These girls have been let down somewhere along the line, by adults.
The normalising of this is also pretty damn awful and I find it sad that you and your DD are so accepting of this (not in the sense of not deleting them which you are, but by not reporting them and viewing it as ‘just one of those things’ to tolerate)

The OP's husband has dismissed the concerns on here as being hysterical over-reaction, as evidenced by his sneery "get the fuck off Mumsnet

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And if this is true then this lad has been done a disservice by both his parents, he is simply acting as he is taught, and as much as he may get away with it, he is also at risk of ruining his future.

It's sad. We see these kids on the news, we wonder who brought them up, how they learned to behave like that.

And now we know.

Roly. Yes, I do understand poor girls in the context of them believing sending nudes is something they should just do. Where is their self esteem? Why do some do it, and others don't?

I meant more that the lad is the one in the most trouble for receiving the pics, rather than the girl. (Although I get that keeping them is reprehensible!). It's this bit I find a bit

Not explaining myself very well but I know what I mean!!!

Not explaining myself very well but I know what I mean!!!

Fair dos! Grim all round isn’t it!?

Does anyone seriously think all the "tell the school" suggestions will be acted on - I mean, really?

The OP originally claimed not to realise exclusions were for "this kind of thing", insisted that it was all just a bit of showing off and thought of asking the school if it could be handled some other way. Then, when the real seriousness came to light - though not completely as she found it (conveniently?) difficult to navigate his phone - it was addressed with a mere talking-to, a reassuring cuddle and, no doubt, his phone returned

Never mind, though ... if this continues to escalate and ends up with him on the sex offenders' register, she'll no doubt think that "wasn't for this kind of thing" either

It is indeed

@pasanda But the police could find out? You seem quite calm about it. I don't quite understand that.

I meant more that the lad is the one in the most trouble for receiving the pics, rather than the girl

If a 15 year old girl willingly and without coercion, sent a naked photo to a fifteen year old boy as much as him possessing the image is criminal there would be no real case to answer to. The issue comes in when said lad sends it to his mates, who send it on to their mates and then the disrespectful ones, keep the image instead of deleting it, and send it further,

That's when it starts to get serious. And then there is a case to answer to.

Pasanda- the person who sent the nude of an underage person (even if it's if tgemself ) the person who possesses the image on an underage person and the person who shares it all get in trouble.

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/sexting/

Are you sure that the image isn't in a deleted items folder or backed up to the cloud?

OP, please tell the school who will act on the info. Just because everyone knows and everyone does it, does not mean it’s not heartbreaking. Those girls may have taken the pics because ‘they wanted to’ but equally who is to say somebody wasn’t bullying them into it?

Your son? You need to speak to school counsellor and get some professional advice. He won’t be the first boy to do this.

I sometimes discuss MN topics with my dc. (Teens)I’ll tell them the scenario and we discuss different views, outcomes and opinions.
This one has resulted in complete outrage and horror.
The overwhelming opinion of my teens is that

1. Eughgh! “Not all people our age do that! It’s a total cop out to say “everyone does it”
2. One has a mate who sent a dick pic, no longer a mate
3. “It really pisses me off that there are kids out there giving us a bad name, it totally destroys our credibility “

There’s more but I won’t bore with it all. Suffice to say, I’m very blessed indeed to have kids who have respect for themselves and others, and also know that me and DH would go beyond Librarian shit if they even THINK of behaving like this. This boy is in his GCSE year, what a fuck up