to consider leaving a relationship because I want to be engaged?

[anotherNCherewego]

For background my BF and I have been together for 4 years, I am 25 he is 30. Whilst I know I am somewhat young, I think his age makes it appropriate to be engaged considering I am ready and so is he. I wanted to be engaged by 25 as I would like a few years to save and build up to a wedding and then a few years before having children. At the moment I am career focused.

When we got together we discussed marriage heavily, we were very caught up in eachother and I had just left an abusive relationship. He was very for marriage and we even discussed doing it the following year.

He has on several occasions fake proposed which I have now found quite hurtful. It usually comes out of nowhere, once on a honeymoon type holiday, once laying in front of the tv, and a few other times on holiday, but it's never serious. No ring, no knee, just randomly saying it out loud. My response is always 'if you are serious then yes' but we always leave it as he isn't serious and i've never shown anger about it.

However, now I am 25 and ready, I've brought it up a few times. He tends to ignore me but most recently said 'well 30 is the year things happen and I need to do it' and comments like that, when it gets mentioned he doesn't dismiss it. However, whenever we argue he will say 'and you expect me to want to marry you? no thanks' or 'you have to earn it' 'you have to prove you deserve a proposal'.

It's made me realise I am not being respected or taken very seriously. We have a home together and a dog who we both adore. However, we have just sold our house (STC) to upsize but are trying to still find the right house. Part of me is wondering whether this is the best moment to leave? I always said I didn't want to move until we were engaged but circumstance makes our current house havoc for both of us and we need to move.

Another point, when we were buying I had said I wanted to be engaged and then buy. He said he wanted a house first so we did that. But he said he will propose within a year as compromise. Obviously that never happened.

I do love him and want to marry him but I don't want to waste my best years on someone who takes me for granted.

@TheBigBangRocks

Oh, come off it. This is such a cliche. "If you really love someone, you'd want to get married in a shed, wearing clogs. Anything else is just shallow." It reeks of jealousy.

And, no, I'm not saying everyone really wants a big wedding, but if you're truly happy with your choice, you won't mind if others do things differently.

I agree with the other posters who say you can’t schedule life. You can have ideas in your mind and work things accordingly but you can’t schedule others to your time line.

BUT no way on earth do you have to “earn” a proposal. For this alone I would leave. As you said house wise it is a good time to leave. Yes you are young but don’t disavantage yourself by sitting around waiting and settling for him. Use your age to your advantage at 25 you can afford to leave him and find someone new. Good luck. You won’t ever regret leaving.

you have to earn it

Run. Now. Don't look back. Don't buy another house with him.

Find someone who cares about you, and who respects your feelings. Fake proposals ouch

Having now read the whole thread, I want to endorse the suggestion of a PP that you read the Lundy Bancroft book why does he do that? and have a look at doing the freedom programme

You have to ‘earn it’. Sod that. Leave him. If he wanted to he would and sounds like a bit of an idiot. I had an ex who fake proposed a couple of times. He treated it like a joke or a way to get out of stuff.

Run for the hills OP. Find someone who treats you as his equal.

Lots of things. The main one being if the person truly wants to marry the person they loved they would be happy to just do it. From what I've seen, those that need the big day want that more than the actual marriage. Marriage is about the vows, not the party.

Oh gosh, you didn't use to be a full time vicar did you? I know somebody who used to say that exact thing and she used to be a vicar. Well still is I guess as she does the odd service.

Why can't we just let people be. If people want a big wedding there is nothing wrong with it. Likewise if people want a tiny wedding with only 2 witness that's fine too.

You don’t need counselling. He’s not good enough for you. Don’t buy a house with him. And be very sceptical about a rush proposal now.

I am not saying in any way to pity this man but I think he feels inadequate. The fake proposals are because he hasn’t got the balls to pull off what he thinks would be a good proposal. Pulling out the proposal card in argument is useful in shutting you up to win an argument so it’s quite handy to keep in his back pocket. He doesn’t mean it he’s just trying to stop the argument and silence you. If you do stay together it will just change to maybe we should cancel the wedding, then maybe we should divorce, then we’ll i don’t think I’m ready to have kids if you do this and so on. It’s the trump card for men who struggle with discussing difficult issues.
You say you have had arguments like this before, only you can know whether you can let the empty threats wash over you.

But also, really take some time to think about beyond the ring, the arguments and the verbal diarrhoea. Is this man really for you? How does he make you feel? Will he be a good and reliable partner and father? You are so young and have been with him since school basically, maybe it’s time to recentre and be yourself for a while then look for someone more mature.

It's a bit of a diversion, and I don't think we should fixate on it, but saving for years for a big bash IS bullshit. Nobody is saying you have to do it on a shoestring , but FGS keep your eyes on the prize: a happy marriage with a partner who respects you. Once you've got that sorted out, you can prioritise in whichever way you want. But the point is that you have to love each other sincerely and want the same things. There are no rules about mortgage, wedding, family, but the main thing is to be absolutely clear that you want to commit to each other, and it's pretty pointless delaying that until you can afford the right kind of table decorations if you want to get on with your lives together.

Get rid. He danggles the proposal and wedding like a carrot to keep you in line and staying with him. My bet is, you dump him, he goes off and finds another woman and marries her within a year. He'll do it for her, but not for you, he's not interested in marrying you, stop begging and have some self respect. Find a man who's worthy of you.

When OP says she wants to save for a wedding, I think she means she wants to do it together, to work out a budget and plan the wedding as a project. Not just that she wants to put money aside. Guess what - this isn't weird or wrong either! DH and I enjoyed planning our wedding together and people generally get motivated by having specific goals when they're saving.

It's also very sensible to have long-term goals in life rather than just coast along hoping that things will somehow fall into place. But this means leaving if you don't see a future with this guy. And I wouldn't, if I were you, OP.

It’s not about the wedding. Only you know if this is the man you want to be with, proposal or no proposal.

Does the thought of leaving make you feel relieved or miserable? That should give you your answer.

Thanks for all your advice.

Just because I feel like I need to justify myself:
-The mean things said about earning engagement etc have always been said in anger, during an argument about something unrelated.

• The fake proposals all occurred before I even mentioned marriage, before I really thought about the timeline. I only realised how much I wanted to be engaged 3 months ago. Also the fake proposals weren't in spite, they were always because we were in a very romantic place or because it was in the moment. A few have felt a bit accidental, like how you accidentally say 'i love you' when all caught up in the moment when you're first dating.

-He does not say anything mean to me otherwise.

-When we discuss our future he always says how he wants to take my surname (it's a very nice surname, so would double barrel), he has told all his friends this and family.

-We regularly discuss our kids names but we have also agreed we wouldn't consider children til I'm 30 (mostly my choice, I am no where near ready for that and either is he)

-The want for the wedding isn't actually to be flashy etc. I'm religious and I want it for those purposes. I would want a few years because I love love love weddings and I would want to do everything myself (i.e. all the invites etc) and the venue needs booking years in advance for the desired date (necessary due to jobs - also the peak season)

-I already save. We jointly 50/50 own the property. Neither of us ever got financial help from our parents or any inheritance etc. We both saved to buy in London. I currently still save but that money was meant either for investment in a new property or for holidays as we travel the world together. We aren't materialistic in any other way. We prefer to spend money on experiences.

So my main issue is that yes he's said he would propose / hinted he would, this year. But then, out the blue in an argument, will say he won't marry me or the other comments in the OP. So I don't know what to think. Whether he is just keeping me strung along.

Don't let him waste your time.

Thanks for coming back @anotherNCherewego

The mean things said about earning engagement etc have always been said in anger, during an argument about something unrelated.

This doesn't lessen them. They are still horrible things to say to you and a vile attitude to have.

Personally, I think he's stringing you along. Sorry.

I doubt that your update has changed the minds of anyone who has already posted.

If you are looking at houses, say that you will need 3 bedrooms because you want at least 1 child probably 2 (or however many you want), and that you do not want to have a child before you are married. See what he says.
Not everyone feels 'ready' to have a baby. There isn't a 'right' time, although at 25 you can choose to leave it a few years. I wouldn't leave it too long though.
If you think he is stringing you along then you give him the elbow.
A flash engagement ring and a big wedding isn't the be all and end all, but do consider if you will still love each other when you have a screaming baby and a toddler, and awkward teenagers, an empty nest and so on.
Look at his parents' relationship and at your parents', for an idea of what expectations you and your partner might have.
You have a timeline, and I think marriage could have been discussed when you were buying a place together. You are looking to buy together again, so it's a great way to give him a nudge.

People tend to say the truth in anger, the things they are hiding from you come out. Listen carefully. It is not something to dismiss.

If you want to test his commitment, what about suggesting living separately for a period after you have sold the property. Give no hint of this before you have sold the property to make sure he does not sabotage the deal.

If you live apart, you will know how much you miss him and how much he gets in touch. Whether he truly wants or company or are a convenience/meal ticket for him. This is a cooling off period to decide your next steps.

But don't take too long, maybe 6 months. Then decide either way. You want to give yourself time and not rush into things with a new person.

FWIW I’d be off - your biggest hurdle is going to be who gets custody of the dog

sorry - i think he is stringing you along.

leave.

He doesn't sound great, but to be fair we only have a tiny snapshot of your relationship here. So assuming ideally you want to stay with him:
If he said it will happen this year, then it might! But rather than wasting the year away waiting I would have a proper adult chat with him. Say marriage is important to you at this stage, and if it's not going to happen then you will be reconsidering the relationship as you're not prepared to carry on like this, being fed little crumbs of hope.

Whilst you are feeling like this I wouldn't move house either, I would put that on the back burner until this is sorted out.

Don't buy another house with this man. Take your share of the equity and leave. Be single for a bit.

He knows you want to be married, so he's dangling it over you as his control.

The nicest way to think of his fake proposals are that he sees it as just part of a fantasy relationship game - when you are super in love you propose. He doesn't really mean it, because he doesn't really see marriage as a serious thing.

He's holding out on committment to you, so don't commit to him by buy a house with him. Take your share of the money and go buy a small place that's your own. Don't stay with a man who tries to hurt you.

My Ex did this to me allllll the time. Always “hinted” at a proposal - we even went Tiffany’s to look at a ring. But every argument he would say things like “how can you expect to marry you when XYZ?” How can you think ill propose when...” until it became “I will never marry you” and I just fucking left.

He’s a time waster, and using a proposal as a carrot on a stick. But you won’t leave him so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Even if he said it in anger, it’s not ok and quite an odd thing to do. He is keeping you in your place.