to consider leaving a relationship because I want to be engaged?

[anotherNCherewego]

For background my BF and I have been together for 4 years, I am 25 he is 30. Whilst I know I am somewhat young, I think his age makes it appropriate to be engaged considering I am ready and so is he. I wanted to be engaged by 25 as I would like a few years to save and build up to a wedding and then a few years before having children. At the moment I am career focused.

When we got together we discussed marriage heavily, we were very caught up in eachother and I had just left an abusive relationship. He was very for marriage and we even discussed doing it the following year.

He has on several occasions fake proposed which I have now found quite hurtful. It usually comes out of nowhere, once on a honeymoon type holiday, once laying in front of the tv, and a few other times on holiday, but it's never serious. No ring, no knee, just randomly saying it out loud. My response is always 'if you are serious then yes' but we always leave it as he isn't serious and i've never shown anger about it.

However, now I am 25 and ready, I've brought it up a few times. He tends to ignore me but most recently said 'well 30 is the year things happen and I need to do it' and comments like that, when it gets mentioned he doesn't dismiss it. However, whenever we argue he will say 'and you expect me to want to marry you? no thanks' or 'you have to earn it' 'you have to prove you deserve a proposal'.

It's made me realise I am not being respected or taken very seriously. We have a home together and a dog who we both adore. However, we have just sold our house (STC) to upsize but are trying to still find the right house. Part of me is wondering whether this is the best moment to leave? I always said I didn't want to move until we were engaged but circumstance makes our current house havoc for both of us and we need to move.

Another point, when we were buying I had said I wanted to be engaged and then buy. He said he wanted a house first so we did that. But he said he will propose within a year as compromise. Obviously that never happened.

I do love him and want to marry him but I don't want to waste my best years on someone who takes me for granted.

OP you should leave.

You say you got together with him after an abusive relationship.

Have you ever done the Freedom Programme?
Have you read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft?

You say he's not abusive but there are some warning balls based on what you've said.

I advise you to go through with the house sale, put your half of the profits into your own bank account (not a joint one) and seriously consider ending this relationship.

If you're the high earner, marriage would benefit him more than you anyway. It would only benefit you in the long run if you had children and he became the main earner.

Your checklist of engagement timeline criteria would do my head in. Were there suitable boyfriend criteria too?

Nothing wrong with a plan, but A friend did exactly this at your age and realised at 40, she’d set the conditions way too high.

That said, your intended sounds like a wanker.

On balance, given the situation is at a crossroads now with your house sale Id end it.

Warning bells not balls 🙈

My OH has also said things like "you have to earn it" "You don't deserve it yet" "what have you done for me"
And my most recent favourite "we're already trying for a baby, I'm giving you a baby what more do you want?!"

He says things as if he doesn't want them too, but when questioned he is excited to have our first baby and apparently will get a married one day but is settled without needing to get married.

He's confusing

Shortandsweet your OH is not confusing. He is actually very clear, just not what you want to hear. All the advice the OP is getting equally applies to you and your OH. Based on what you said, I would not advise having a baby with this man.

@ShortandSweet96

He's not confusing, he's an asshole.

shortandsweet: he’s not confusing he’s a dick, and ttc with him is a terrible idea.

If you do (foolishly) have a DC with him, don’t stop FT work or make any changes that compromise your earnings, current or potential, unless he makes them too.

OP: your DP sounds like a dick too with the “you’ve got to earn it” crap. But engagement with the intention of being engaged for years is pointless.

I also think that you sound more fixed on the proposal than the relationship - why the need for timescales, particularly as you don’t even want to get married soon? An engagement won’t mean you won’t break up - I’ve seen a few long engagements fizzle our before the wedding.

My friend did something similar. Wanted to be engaged by 26, married by 28, baby by 30. She met someone at 24 and basically gave him an ultimatum, propose by whatever date or she leaves. Her timescales all worked out and she got what she wanted - but her relationship isn’t a happy one, for either her or her husband. I can’t help but think that she was so fixated on meeting her targets, she forgot about what was actually important - a loving, stable relationship. Don’t be like her.

I also can kind of see it from your boyfriends perspective. I was with my now husband for 7 years before we got engaged. We were happy in our relationship, owned a house, travelled the world... Marriage was something we decided to do together. If he’d tried to push me into engagement sooner I think I would have backed off too. Let’s be honest, day to day life doesn’t change when you become Mr & Mrs!

He doesn't sound very kind. I wouldn't marry him. Even giving him sufficient benefit of the doubt to assume you've been objectively annoying, the fake proposals are mean as fuck and telling you that you have to earn it is a red flag. If someone is hanging marriage over you as a carrot to try and control your behaviour, it's time to go.

In terms of the wider discussion about ages and timetables, I don't think a fixed I want to do x at this age schedule is a good idea. But some of the criticisms of it have gone too far. 25 is not, actually, really young to be engaged. The average age for a woman on first marriage in the UK is 30. Assuming a year or so engagement, that would put the average at 28 or 29. Three years below average is not particularly young.

And if you're a woman who wants children, particularly if you don't rule out the possibility of having more than 2, you do have to think about these things. If you've taken the perfectly sensible and reasonable view that you want the protection of a marriage contract and the security of owning property first, and assuming you're not going to follow the dipshit advice given upthread that you don't even need to consider fertility before 35, it's prudent to give some thought to timings about how long it might take to arrange these things.

That doesn't mean OP has to get engaged this very instant, but it does mean that she's not completely on the wrong track thinking about how long it might take to achieve the things she wants. Although even if she didn't want children and marriage, it would still be a good idea to break up with someone who's been so nasty.

The comments he makes in arguments are very hurtful.

Now, OP you honestly sound a bit "box ticking" to me. A relationship is not about being pragmatic and timelines...this may sound harsh but you come across as someone who wants the engagement and wedding but not the marriage. You mention a friens recently getting engaged so is this a jealousy thing? Im sure he is feeling the pressure from you. You need to consider if you WANT to be MARRIED to this man not just engaged and go from there. Also its ridiculous that you cant save unless you are engaged

What is agreeing to be married in the first 6 months and a 'promise ring' other than an engagement?

Having said that, if neither of you think you are engaged, this is not the person or time for you to marry. He sounds unkind, you sound focused on some big 'event' of proposal.

ShortandSweet96 wake up...
He is when questioned telling you what you want to hear to keep the status quo.
Unless you are financially independent I really recommend you stop ttc and sort out getting married first.

This forum is littered with women who had children unmarried and now the relationship has broken down seem surprised that having given up work to raise the aforementioned children they have no rights to stay on their home and that their “D”P has little to no financial obligation toward them or their children.

You have to EARN it!!!??? What!!!???
Absolutely get out...he sounds horrible. You deserve a lot better

Please leave him and find someone that loves you and thinks you're wonderful, instead of someone who taunts you with fake proposals, says awful things to you, and cares more about what his family thinks of the ring than about your feelings.

Chuck him. And I'd seriously re-evaluate the whole saving for the wedding of the century thing- it's bullshit.

This forum is littered with women who had children unmarried and now the relationship has broken down seem surprised that having given up work to raise the aforementioned children they have no rights to stay on their home and that their “D”P has little to no financial obligation toward them or their children.

Yup. Because they've swallowed the lie that you can be just as committed without marriage. You can't, actually. Marriage is a contract of commitment. It doesn't guarantee you'll stay together but it protects your future if you don't.

There's also nothing wrong with wanting a big wedding. Whenever there a thread and weddings there are always so many posts saying: "Why do you need a wedding? Just go to the register office". Why? What's wrong with wanting a big wedding? It's a perfectly valid choice. I don't regret having one. I love having the pictures on the wall and the dress in a box to remember one of the happiest times in our life.

THANK YOU roboticseapup

Also agree that in the real world wanting a nice big wedding is fairly normal and not crime of the century.

What's wrong with wanting a big wedding?

Lots of things. The main one being if the person truly wants to marry the person they loved they would be happy to just do it. From what I've seen, those that need the big day want that more than the actual marriage. Marriage is about the vows, not the party.

Haven’t read whole thread and 2/3 through OP I was thinking YWBU and a bit fixated on marriage at such a young age and he may be feeling pressured.

However, when I got to the part about him fake proposing, making you buy a house with promise of engagement and not following through then telling you you needed to ‘earn it’ I changed my mind.

He’s stringing you along. He doesn’t want to get married. The next thing will be him encouraging you to have a baby first. The goal posts will always move.

Lots of things. The main one being if the person truly wants to marry the person they loved they would be happy to just do it.

So you can only truly love the person if you dont have a big wedding? My DH nd i jad a big wedding we both loved it and dont regret it for a second. NOTHING is wrong with big weddings if its what BOTH partners want. Now same can be said about having a wedding just at the registry office- BOTH need to want it.