to consider leaving a relationship because I want to be engaged?

[anotherNCherewego]

For background my BF and I have been together for 4 years, I am 25 he is 30. Whilst I know I am somewhat young, I think his age makes it appropriate to be engaged considering I am ready and so is he. I wanted to be engaged by 25 as I would like a few years to save and build up to a wedding and then a few years before having children. At the moment I am career focused.

When we got together we discussed marriage heavily, we were very caught up in eachother and I had just left an abusive relationship. He was very for marriage and we even discussed doing it the following year.

He has on several occasions fake proposed which I have now found quite hurtful. It usually comes out of nowhere, once on a honeymoon type holiday, once laying in front of the tv, and a few other times on holiday, but it's never serious. No ring, no knee, just randomly saying it out loud. My response is always 'if you are serious then yes' but we always leave it as he isn't serious and i've never shown anger about it.

However, now I am 25 and ready, I've brought it up a few times. He tends to ignore me but most recently said 'well 30 is the year things happen and I need to do it' and comments like that, when it gets mentioned he doesn't dismiss it. However, whenever we argue he will say 'and you expect me to want to marry you? no thanks' or 'you have to earn it' 'you have to prove you deserve a proposal'.

It's made me realise I am not being respected or taken very seriously. We have a home together and a dog who we both adore. However, we have just sold our house (STC) to upsize but are trying to still find the right house. Part of me is wondering whether this is the best moment to leave? I always said I didn't want to move until we were engaged but circumstance makes our current house havoc for both of us and we need to move.

Another point, when we were buying I had said I wanted to be engaged and then buy. He said he wanted a house first so we did that. But he said he will propose within a year as compromise. Obviously that never happened.

I do love him and want to marry him but I don't want to waste my best years on someone who takes me for granted.

You do come over as very fixated on the idea of a ring, a flash wedding and being married.

Have you thought where all of this is coming from?

Would you ever settle for commitment and not being married?
What is it about a posh wedding and being married that is so important?

Have you and your partner talked about children- if you both want them and when?

Looking at you from the outside, you have got some commitment in the sense he was happy to take on buying a house together .

Some women- and ok, that's not you perhaps- would be happy to co-habit and not worry about being married- ever.

I know a couple- friends- who lived together for 30 years and only married in their 60s.

You come over as wanting a ring and a wedding more than finding or being with the right person.

Is this guy committed?
Does he talk about being with you till your dying day?
Does he want you to have his babies?
Do you plan a future together?

If so, does the actual wedding or a ring matter?

Lots of couples can't agree on what kind of wedding they want. But they are still committed.

Is for you an engagement a sign of commitment and you don't have that commitment now?

I'm sorry to say this but you come over as a bit old fashioned.
Nowadays, many couples who live together and have bought a house together, KNOW they are going to stay together and sometimes skip the whole 'engagement' thing anyway.

Equally, some women ask their man to get married- it doesn't have to be the man who proposes.

Ever thought of asking him?

I'm not quite sure how to put this, but some of your values seem a bit shallow- especially delaying a wedding so you can have one costing thousands, when really what you want is commitment. You seem to be living in a bit of a little girl fantasy world where the man has to propose, you must be engaged and you must have a flash do.

You just need to be very honest with him.
Tell him your bio clock is ticking. If he doesn't want to make this relationship permanent, with a date for a wedding, then you will end it.

But I do think that if you want to be married- which is what comes over- you need to re-think your timescales and just get married. Forget the flash party for everyone else.

“'and you expect me to want to marry you? no thanks' or 'you have to earn it' 'you have to prove you deserve a proposal'”

RUN AWAY

I'm sorry to say this but you come over as a bit old fashioned

Wanting the commitment of marriage doesn’t make someone old-fashioned. Wanting a proposal, maybe, but not wanting to be married.

"in arguments, he tends to try to say things to hurt me to get a reaction. It's not right but it's a bad habit we got into when we were younger. "

Honey, you are literally doing everything to excuse what is unacceptable behaviour. Young or old (and now that he is older, why the heck hasn't he grown out of it) it's not right. Are you trying to say then, that this was okay when you were young? It wasn't.

Stop making excuses for someone who is treating you like crap and leave. I'm not going to give you a fluffy answer like some of the other commentators here, this situation is clear as day, he has you hooked on a fishing line. Also, you're only 25, stop wrapping your entire identity around a ring and wedding day. The ring and dress are not the MARRIAGE and given how awful his behaviour is now, he'll only get worse in a marriage.

You're yet to know what it's like to have a man who has his s**t together and the day you meet one, you'll laugh that you ever wasted your time with this guy and for the love of God, don't buy a house with him.

Get your stuff and go, you don't even have to offer a full explanation. Tell him you thought he wasn't the one for you then, block, delete and next.

I really don't think that anyone who wasn't in the room when he said those things can judge.

They could have been said in jest . They could have been said in anger.

We don't know.

If he was SERIOUS then yes, I agree and can't understand why the OP comes to ask what to do.

However, it does show something no matter what the tone..

that she expects the man to propose and seems fixated on ''being engaged' rather than being in a committed relationship where couples agree to marry and set a date.

An engagement is no more than a promise to marry. It's slightly outdated you could argue because now people live together and behave as if they are married compared to 30 years ago when co-habiting was called 'living in sin' and sex before marriage was wrong.

(I've got that T-shirt.)

For many couples, 30 years or more ago, being 'engaged' gave them a bit more freedom and licence to have sex before marriage.

Bet not many posters are old enough to recall those good old days.

. Wanting a proposal, maybe, but not wanting to be married.

I meant the actual ^engagement', the ring and all the hoo-haa over a flash wedding , and wanting a guy to propose rather than asking each other.

Not the commitment.

He’s stringing you along - dangling a proposal like a carrot and using it like a stick too, because he knows it’s something you really want. Not delightful behaviour.

I was somewhat in your shoes in that I wanted to get engaged before DP did (though tbf my DP wasn’t being a dick about it). I was happy to propose to him myself, but I knew he preferred to be the one to propose. So I told him if he hadn’t proposed by X date then I would propose to him. An ultimatum I guess, but not “marry me or I go”, rather one about the timing of engagement. Anyway he proposed about 10 days before X date.

Why on earth should men get to be the ones who decide when you get engaged and married? Surely it should be decided between you like sensible adults - the same way you’d hopefully decide everything in your future married life?

Sounds like he might be someone who is good on paper. Perhaps you are a little materialistic as well and loathe to let go?

OP has already stated clearly she is financially independant of Him and is the much higher earner,

OP you sound very switched on and I think you are right, now is the right time to Leave. Start again and find someone who will cherish your relationship, not have you waiting like a loyal pet after 5years.

good luck

I’ve only read the first page. I was in a similar situation many years ago. In my mind I have him a year to propose or I’d call it quits. The promises to propose, window shopping at rings etc felt hurtful. One day I snapped and told him how hurtful it was, a few months later he proposed even though it wasn’t in a romantic way. We got married and have 2DC but part of me feels like I pushed him into this marriage.

Basically what I’m trying to say is you could leave and never know how things would’ve turned out, or you could be upfront and he quite likely would propose but then you’d never know if he did it just to keep you.

OP. He is coming out with excuse after excuse to not get engaged. Who cares about a flashy ring and a flashy wedding.

A few words of wisdom from a counsellor that I attended after my divorce

"If he wanted to, he would"

That's it in a nutshell isn't it.

A friend of mine was with someone for 12 years, he kept promising to propose but every birthday, Christmas etc, nothing happened. She got so upset. He had loads of excuses, money, his childhood, blah blah blah. In the end she left him a few years before she turned 30, and met and married somebody else. They left it too late to have DC though.

Be warned by her tale. Don't wait for him to propose, if you want to get married, have a serious conversation with him and set a date. If he won't do that, then walk away now before you buy another house with him.

1. He doesn't want to marry you. Why on earth would you want to be engaged to someone who doesn't want to marry you? That's really pathetic.

1. Being engaged is just the time it takes to plan the wedding (and is totally irrelevant, as is the ring and proposal). You're so busy with the ring, proposal, wedding, savings that you're forgetting the marriage part. You two have some serious issues that need working out. Even if you get married you'll divorce within a short time because you didn't plan the marriage, just the wedding day and the frippery. Once that is gone you can't hide from your issues anymore.

1. You are not too young, most people marry second half of their twenties and have a baby by 30. Stop wasting your time and find a suitable partner who wants to spend his life with you and treats you like an equal. This one is stringing you along and deep down you know it.

I know that I wrote some harsh words but I think that you need to hear them. I do wish you the best and I hope that you find what you really need in life to make you happy.

Most people marry second half of twenties? Do they?

If he wanted to marry you he would and it is as simple as that. You can come on here any given day and find thread after thread where a guy has promised to propose after a house move/kids/footie final but 10 years down the line they are still not married, in spite of the female in the relationship wanting to more than anything. On top of that he just doesn’t sound very nice. I may seem harsh, but I’ve seen this too many times. You can do better and you will regret sticking around. Good luck op

You sound more interested in a wedding and the idea of being married than in him as a person. Are you together out of habit or because you can't bear to be apart and want to spend your life with him?

Leave

He doesn't want to marry you. Leave.

Sorry, will go back and rtft later but this caught my attention:

whenever we argue he will say 'and you expect me to want to marry you? no thanks' or 'you have to earn it' 'you have to prove you deserve a proposal'

But he doesn't have to prove he deserves you by behaving perfectly at all times? Of course not, because marriage is a "prize" he dangles in front of you. He thinks he's such a fucking great catch and you aren't.

Whatever you do do NOT have children with this asshole. He will leave you hanging until you die. And even if he doesn't, and you end up getting married and winning the "amazing trophy" that is him, the rot will have set in by then and you will no longer feel like this is such a big win because he did it so begrudgingly. I've seen it before. And you will think "was that it? Was that what I was pining for all this time?"

Seriously, find someone who deserves you. You are young and have plenty of time.

1. You are not too young, most people marry second half of their twenties and have a baby by 30.

good grief of course they don't.

Very few of my DD's friends who went to uni are married yet. They are getting married around 30 and having children between 30-35.

My DC ended a going-nowhere long term relationship at 29. A year on and she's not found a replacement. That's more worrying when she wants children than someone just 25!

Sorry OP, but if you're think you need to be engaged before you can 'start saving', you're probably too immature to get married.

Leave him. You're still so young, you will meet someone else who will realise how bloody lucky he is to have you and will actively WANT to marry you rather than dangling it like a carrot. In the meantime you can save money so you'll be able to afford the wedding you want.

"However, whenever we argue he will say 'and you expect me to want to marry you? no thanks' or 'you have to earn it' 'you have to prove you deserve a proposal'."

...With regards to what you've said, it's clear he doesn't respect your wishes. Infact, he probably sees you as the donkey, so continues to dangle the 'marriage proposal' like a carrot to manipulate and draw you in as much as he wants.

Best advice is to "shake the dust of your running shoes" and be strong enough to leave with dignity and grace.

If you really mean that much to him, then he'll be back on his knees more eager than ever to...

He's being abusive. He knows you want to marry (which isn't unreasonable) and is holding it over you, using it as a stick to beat you with.

This is not a man you want to be with long term.

You sound more interested in a wedding and the idea of being married than in him as a person

This ^

It's all about the proposal, big day and your wants. No wonder he doesn't propose. The fact you are willing to leave if he doesn't follow your plans says a lot.

It's all about the proposal, big day and your wants. No wonder he doesn't propose. The fact you are willing to leave if he doesn't follow your plans says a lot.

I disagree entirely, and after 5 years I think OP is entitled to question the long term status about her future, biological clock and all things considered.

Sorry - but I'm with the small handful of posters who are put off by your rigid scheduling and pushiness

"You can't force others to fit in with your schedule and appreciating the benefits of flexibility will be a great life-skill in the longer terms. Also, many people see engagement as a brief precursor to marriage, not as a thing that lasts for years in itself."

and

"You sound fixated on getting engaged and married OP. You're only 25, relax! That's a really weird comment you made about 'his age makes it appropriate to be engaged'. That sounds fucked-up. It isn't a mathematical equation. It's about loving someone and wanting t spend the rest of your life with them regardless of what age they are!!
Someone like you would do my head in and your obsession would drive me in the other direction. Maybe this is what has happened to your BF."

and

"Christ. You sound seriously pushy and hard work. Why on earth are you so obsessed with being engaged? Is it a social status thing? Jealousy? You said yourself you then want to save up for a wedding over time, you can still do that now and not have a ridiculously long engagement. If someone was pressuring me to propose it would really put me off. It's obvious you are desperate about it or is wouldn't make those awful comments when you argue. He's made it blatantly obvious he plans to propose this year and not to harp on about it to leave some element of surprise. There is nothing stopping you from proposing yourself if you can't bare to wait, but that wouldn't make as good a story to your mates would if? In fact scrap waiting, if a ring is more important to you than being with him then maybe you would be best to leave."

and

"It's all about the proposal, big day and your wants. No wonder he doesn't propose. The fact you are willing to leave if he doesn't follow your plans says a lot."