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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think I’ve done something very stupid (work related)

224 replies

NewYearsSleeve · 05/01/2019 23:59

I work for a small business from my employers home office & I hate it. I’ve been working with a recruitment agency for a while trying to find something different. The agency sent my CV to another small business with my agreement but I’ve just found out the owner of the other business is friends with my boss. I’ve got an angry message from my boss asking me what I’m doing looking for another job as she thought we were friends and telling me not to expect a reference. WIBU not to go in on Monday? My boss can be intimidating & bullies people. (One of the reasons I hate working for her).

OP posts:
Commonpeoplelikeme · 07/01/2019 21:51

Is bullying in the workplace illegal in the UK? If not it should be and irrespective of how long you’ve worked there. Hope there’s someone you can report this arsehole to.

daisychain01 · 07/01/2019 22:00

OP your former employers are a thoroughly unprofessional cowboy outfit, you deserve better. Here's a checklist for which they need to meet their obligations:

  1. Contractual Notice period to be paid in full;
  2. Outstanding Worked days fully remunerated;
  3. Outstanding Statutory accrued / carried-over holiday days paid (if any)
  4. P45 issued and sent to your home address with final payslip to account for (1) - (3) above

I wouldn't bother about a reference, you can prove employment dates.
I wouldn't bother about the GDPR issue, it will sap your energy working out who is at fault and how to lodge a complaint. It's non-value add stuff when you don't have a job atm! But that's only my opinion, others may differ.

I would email your former manager from your personal account cc to HR if any, summarising the above, so you have it in writing, in case they try to pull a fast one on you and refuse to pay you.

If they drag their heels and make no attempt to pay you or engage with you, then you have a clearcut claim against them, for which ACAS can give you full information at that time (wrongful dismissal and unpaid wages, both breaches of contract). Claim Deadline is 3 months from today, when they dismissed you.

Onwards and upwards!

Original poster
NewYearsSleeve · 07/01/2019 22:02

My worry is she is vindictive and unprofessional enough to lie & give me a bad reference. Like I had to take a few weeks off sick with glandular fever so would mention that I had a poor attendance record etc. But hoping that someone will give me a chance.

I do need something to say about why I want to leave - a recruitment agency asked me that today and I stuttered all over the question.

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 07/01/2019 22:03

Scrub the cc to HR (there isn't one!) Grin

daisychain01 · 07/01/2019 22:06

Can you get a reference from a previous employer, if you worked somewhere else before this? Id avoid this bunch of clowns in all other respects than getting paid.

Flyinggeese · 07/01/2019 22:06

Vivian seriously? Sick note for what medical condition? I can't believe the flimsy reasons people would go to their GP, on the NHS presumably. Also how on earth does that help the OP? Job searching while medically signed off work?

OP the best of luck to you.

Original poster
NewYearsSleeve · 07/01/2019 22:07

And I also took a week off in December (unpaid) because my children had chicken pox. She was awful about it at the time. I can imagine she would use all of this info if asked for a reference. I guess I can’t worry about it now.

OP posts:
WineIsMyMainVice · 07/01/2019 22:07

To be honest references are very rarely given these days. Any prospective employer you explained this situation to would understand.
Good luck with your search.

daisychain01 · 07/01/2019 22:14

If I were you I'd go and have a nice hot bath, get a good night's sleep and wake up tomorrow with renewed vigour knowing you'll never having to face that vile woman ever again. You've escaped, that's worth celebrating. You'll feel relieved in a day or so believe me!

Take care x

MabelFurball · 07/01/2019 22:21

What to say when asked why you wanted to leave?
That she was a freaking psycho bitch would be a good start.

Or just Google it -
You are looking for better career prospects, professional growth and work opportunities.
You want a change in career direction.
You are looking for new challenges at work.
You were made redundant or the company closed down.
Your company was restructuring.

Gth1234 · 07/01/2019 22:29

You haven't done anything stupid. Unfortunate outcome, that's all.

IrisTs · 07/01/2019 22:43

@newyearssleeve

Let her try give you bad reference... you can get a note from the doctors that you were signed off which will amount to untruthful reference if she only says your attendance was poor. Sue her arse off

Can my employer give me a bad reference?

Yes and no. Many people mistakenly believe that your boss can’t give you abad referenceby law, but that’s not entirely true…

References just have to be accurate and truthful so if you were disciplined at your last job then they could include that on your reference. However, many employers are scared to give bad references because anything considered to be not 100% accurate could be grounds forlegalaction. If you find out that you have been unfairly given a bad reference then you could possibly sue.

What can I do if my old employer provides a bad reference?

If you believe your past employer's reference unfairly harmed your future work prospects you may be able to sue for ‘negligent misstatement’. To do so, you must show that:

  • The information in the reference is misleading
  • Providing this misleading information has had a negative effect on your future employment
  • Your employer was negligent in providing a reference.

Alternatively, if you think there is an element ofdiscriminationinvolved, you can bring your former employer to an employment tribunal.

OllyBJolly · 07/01/2019 23:22

So much poor advice on this thread, particularly on references....

Anyway - you need a positive response to the question about why you left. Was it just you and the owner?

"I worked for a sole trader. The company was too small for two of us with the result there was a bit of conflict. No-ones fault; I knew it was time to move on to find a role where I could do more of what I'm good at. She's not happy about me leaving, but I wish her well."

Good luck with your job hunting.

Warpdrive · 07/01/2019 23:22

OP it is incredibly rare to take a bad reference from a referee. In my career I’ve only had 1. If she gives a bad one and lies about you, it is defamatory and libellous so you could challenge it in court.

My advice if in doubt is, Just don’t use her as your referee. Find another referee. X

Fuckofffortnite · 08/01/2019 00:14

You’ve had 4 weeks off sick in 12 months Confused
Anyhow, if you have a good experience from your employer before her then I’m sure you’ll be ok and will be able to explain this situation when asked, just be truthful, no need to make anything up.
I get asked for references for ex employees from years ago, it’s no problem.
Really amused at how many people assume a small business has a HR dept Grin. Contracts, payroll, HMRC, performance management, health and safety and scrubbing the toilets...... a lot of us has had to the lot.

Original poster
NewYearsSleeve · 08/01/2019 09:44

Yes fuckofffortnite I’ve had 4 weeks off. I know it’s a lot but what was I supposed to do with glandular fever? It’s an awful illness that absolutely floored me. I’ve never felt so ill. I know it’s not great.

I think being upfront is the best way to be. I don’t want to tie myself in knots trying to lie about anything with future employers. Thank you.

OP posts:
HulksPurplePanties · 08/01/2019 09:58

How long were you with them? My last employer was absolutely toxic (text book narcissist, and I don't use that term lightly, we called him Donald Trump behind his back). I left after 7 months. I didn't ask them for a reference. My current employer asked why I was leaving after only 7 months and I was honest and told them the place was toxic (think 6 hour long racist rants where we are all confined to the meeting room). It actually helped me get my current job where the organization is going through a lot of transition.

akkakk · 08/01/2019 10:03

What a load of tosh is being posted on here - so much bad advice it is difficult to know where to start!

GDPR is irrelevant - the OP had a CV sent through which will have referenced the then current employer for references - perfectly legal to contact them - at the heart of GDPR is a right to use data for legitimate purposes - GDPR is not a general restriction on using data...

As others have said - no legal grounds for constructive dismissal/ no need for HR departments / etc...

OP - sorry this has happened but the beat advice is to not worry about references, move on and find a decent employer...

DGRossetti · 08/01/2019 10:35

at the heart of GDPR is a right to use data for legitimate purposes

No. At the heart of GDPR is explicit consent to use data for legitimate purposes. It was needed because so many organisations decided that "legitimate" meant "whatever we like". Which it doesn't.

OllyBJolly · 08/01/2019 11:06

If the OP went to a decent recruitment agency then they will have had her explicit consent to use her data in helping her find a job. It's a red herring in this case.

OP, the reason Fortnite pointed out the absence is that it's factual and can be included in a reference. What a prospective employer can't do is discriminate on the grounds of that knowledge, IF THE ABSENCE RELATES TO A DISABILITY AS DESCRIBED IN THE EQUALITY ACT. But it was a one off, due to an unfortunate, specific, unlikely to recur illness. If it had been 20 days of Monday absences then alarm bells would be ringing.

However, that's probably another red herring as it's unlikely you'll give that employer as a referee anyway.

akkakk · 08/01/2019 11:56

legitimate consent does not require the data owner to provide permission - it is a clause in there to allow data to be used where there is a legitimate need and the data owner is being awkward - it is undoubtedly tougher for companies to demonstrate that it fits that criteria, but it exists... it allows medics / law / police / etc. to use data without having to ask someone their permission - equally it is valid for companies and can be implicit or explicit permission etc.

e.g. if you sign up as a member to a gym then there is implicit permission to use your data for legitimate purposes etc.

and anyway, in this instance the OP has approached a recruitment company to look for jobs it would be absurd to say that there is no permission to then use her data for that purpose!

startingafresh1 · 08/01/2019 12:31

It's very risky to lie on a reference or give enshrine feedback that can't be proven. However, if you have had a lot of sick leave and unpaid emergency leave she can legitimately mention this and it may look bad to a future employer who places emphasis on reliable attendance.

startingafresh1 · 08/01/2019 12:32

Enshrine?! Should say negative.

Princessmushroom · 08/01/2019 12:35

Please please please send this to the AskAManager website

OllyBJolly · 08/01/2019 14:12

Please please please send this to the AskAManager website

And exactly what would a US blogging site do to help the OP?

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