DH huge rows with nearly 2 year old

[MoaningSickness]

So my 21 month old is gorgeous and wonderful and of course, irritating as fuck in that way that only a toddler can be.

I mostly manage not to scream and gnash my teeth when I realise she has managed to smuggle food down her shirt from lunch and lovingly spread in on the sofa, or Andrew puppied the loo roll... But DH is getting increasingly cross with her, for what I consider to be normal behaviour for her age.

I popped out this evening as they went into the bathroom. When I returned, they were still in there, she was wailing, and he gave a massive tirade about how she had done X,Y and Z and made a mess 'even when he asked her not to' and apparently they had been locked in a 45 minute stand off where he said they weren't leaving the room til she tidied away the mess she had made and she was refusing/crying.

I told DH to go take a moment and regain his calm, he accused me of undermining him, I said I would get her to tidy but he needed to calm down, so he went and we tidied.

I tried to talk to him later, but he kept saying she needs to learn she can't make a mess, etc, and I think she is just to young to really get the consequences of her actions. He says she is old enough to understand 'no'.

I don't think it helps that she is very verbal so she appears older than she is. For example she will say 'sorry' if you tell her to, but I don't think she understands the concept of being sorry at all. Or DH will get her to say she promises she won't do X, which she faithfully parrots, but I don't believe she has the faintest idea what a 'promise' is, so it's hardly surprising when she does the thing two minutes later.

I don't want to undermine him, but when I came in and he launched into 'she did this, she did that' it was more like listening to a sibling telling tales on how it is all the other child's fault than a 40 year old talking about a 1 year old.

I think DH and I have very different ideas about the level of behaviour to expect from a child her age, and I don't honestly know which of us is off base. Aibu or is he?

Dealing with toddlers is a minefield when you have nothing to compare them to and no previous experience to draw on. Dh is stricter than me and had a hard time with ds during the toddler/ pre school years. As a consequence, we had a lot of arguments between us. But without fail we learned to find a middle ground that worked and with our second it's been much easier (although ironically she's actually a much more 'determined' child - very strong willed). If you agree on the principles, then you need to work on agreeing some age appropriate ways of dealing with the behaviour. Our dd is 2. She tidies up - when she's not angry or upset. Therefore, in this scenario, we'd have taken some time away from the situation until her mood improved, left the mess (temporarily) and returned to it later, at which point she'd have been more receptive to tidying. You pick your battles, especially. And when they're a little older you can start introducing consequences. If your dh refuses to read - the internet, parenting books or whatever - then he at least needs to acknowledge that if you both continue to deal with things so differently it'll cause your marriage problems. Differential parenting styles are a leading cause of divorce in the few years after the birth of a baby. He needs to understand that there is most probably a more effective, age appropriate way of dealing with the behaviour - a way that won't completely alienate you or damage his relationship with his child. He will never 'win' a stand-off with a toddler. He needs to find another way to help reduce all your stress levels.

Sorry haven't rtft but seconding what PPs have said about explaining to DH realistic development for this age.

Also, prevention can be better than cure. Try to be one step ahead of your toddler. If she likes to play with the loo roll, keep the bathroom door closed. If she likes to spread food on the sofa, only let her eat at the table etc etc

Basically, she hasn't yet reached the cognitive understanding of "if this happens, then this will happen". It's quite obvious when they do reach this stage, and discipline suddenly becomes a lot more effective IME. She's probably nearly there - I think it was around 26 months with my youngest DC.

My now 2.5 year old has/had quite advanced speech, could do numbers and letters quite early etc too - I think both dh and I have been guilty of expecting too much of him for this reason too, and whem you're knackered and just teying to muddle through the day (which seems to basically be the definition of parenting) it's easy to get overwhelmed by how much energy has to go into communicating with a toddler and containing their emotions/behaviour. I've definitely done the whole 'shit can't back down now' thing befpre amd them realised after a sleep/break that it was the wrong tack.

I think you're right that his expectations are too high, but as long as he's receptive to change that's good - also maybe he actually needs reassurance that this is normal? He might be anxious about a lack of control/be scared his kid is 'badly behaved' etc and he's failing in some way...like you say, you see this behaviour all the time cos you're aroumd other kids but he doesn't get so much exposure. Good luck in any case xx

Having read the bit about teaching her to count at 18 months, I am more confident in using the word narcissist for your H.
Why did he do this?

Oh for goodness sake! He used to count things in her environment (i.e. while nappy changing) as a game to entertain her, and one day she joined in, so he started doing more counting with her. There was nothing nefarious about it. He doesn't think she's above average, he assumed all kids her age can do this, because she can and he has no other experience.

He is 'open to suggestions' but he wont actually take the time to follow up on any.

I never said that. I didn't want to get into the minutiae of our lives but he's dyslexic, so would struggle with a book and is currently working full time and renovating the house we are living in in every spare hour apart from when he's taking our daughter so I get a break.

So thanks for the suggestions, but no commute, no spare lunch hour, no sitting around playing games or watching TV, and no he can't read a book for 45 minutes while he's looking after toddler, are you crazy she needs watching like a hawk.

I've already suggested I read the book and pull out more manageable chunks for him. Hes already said he is more than willing to try something else as obviously he doesn't want to keep struggling with her either.

Try an audiobook he can listen to that when he is rennovating

Wrt the couch, and your DD attempting to jump off it - put the couch cushions on the floor and let her try jumping. She will be able to do it in a few weeks.

Again, not going into drawing floor plans of the living room, but there is no way to make jumping off the back of our high backed sofa safe for the toddler, so we have to stop her.

Believe it or not, being in the situation we have a better idea of what is possible than you.

He doesn't have the time to read books

But he spends time in 45 minute stand offs? This is about prioritising as well. Some time invested in learning to manage a toddler now will save him time in the future and be better for both of them. Nor does it have to be written form - Audible alone has numerous links for audio books on child rearing:

www.amazon.co.uk/Positive-Toddler-Taming-Successful-Strategies/dp/B00L5LE6T4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=audible+books++toddler+taming&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1546512147&sr=1-1

There are plenty of YouTube videos as well. Both categories include items aimed specifically at new fathers.

If during his renovations he reaches a new task he hasn't done before does he plough on and botch it or pause and invest a bit of time in understanding the problem and solution first?

Toddlers this age can perform tidying, counting, toilet training. The key word is "perform".

What they don't have is the cognitive development to understand the why's and the variations which are needed to be able to truly do things rather than perform things.

So present a toddler with four items and they can parrot 1,2,3,4. Ask them "what does 4 mean" and they won't have a clue in the way that an older child would.

Honestly you both need to prioritise his spending some of his time learning this stuff over standoffs and redecorating - even if its just 15-20 minutes a day of an audiobook whilst doing other tasks. Otherwise you are establishing a conflict based relationship which will drain you both.

My first husband was like this. It got to the point that I could not leave my DD with him which caused so many problems. He was the same with me too. I ended up taking her and leaving. Best thing I ever did.

Try to be one step ahead of your toddler. If she likes to play with the loo roll, keep the bathroom door closed. If she likes to spread food on the sofa, only let her eat at the table etc etc

Actually it feels like she is always a step ahead of me. I do only let her eat at the table, and thought I had cleaned her up, but she had dropped some food inside her clothes that I didn't know about til she brought it out whilst on the pale coloured (bought a decade before we had a child) sofa. Similarly the toilet roll incident was 'how I learned she could open the bathroom door'.

I am learning - I've already childproofed the external doors before she can reach the handles, for example, but she manages to find new things I hadn't thought of on a daily basis!

What they don't have is the cognitive development to understand the why's and the variations which are needed to be able to truly do things rather than perform things.

I agree. If you have any suggestions for YouTube videos, or written articles I would appreciate them.

I know there's a lot out there and will be looking myself but there is also a load of dross on YouTube etc (and indeed some supposed childcare books) that I wil have to wade through, so if anyone knows anything good that would help.

there is also a load of dross on YouTube etc (and indeed some supposed childcare books) that I wil have to wade through, so if anyone knows anything good that would help.

Why you, though? Why not your DH?

He doesn't have the time to read books

But he spends time in 45 minute stand offs?

You are the second poster to say something like this and I can't really believe you are suggesting that he sits down and reads a book while he is supposed to be looking after our child?! I would really not be happy with that.

Why you, though? Why not your DH?

Because I'm the one trying to show him his understanding is wrong.

If I just say 'go look at YouTube' there's bound to be people on there who think all kinds of rubbish is a good idea (I know there are pro smacking people for example), and that's not going to help is it?

Before she was born we had some different ideas on baby rearing (me being more into 'attatchment parenting') if I had just told him to read any baby book and he'd picked up Gina Ford it wouldn't have got him on side, would it? It would have just further convinced him I was doing it all wrong. I actually sent him some articles on attachment parenting, he 'got' where I was coming from.

You are the second poster to say something like this and I can't really believe you are suggesting that he sits down and reads a book while he is supposed to be looking after our child?!

No I'm the second poster who is pointing out that he is spending time in conflict but can't find it for learning to manage that conflict. Neither of us suggested he ignore a toddler to read a book and to suggest so is disingenuous.

Audiobooks are a thing. We have a 12 month old and I know my partner has trouble with expectations of behaviour, but he’s taken the time to understand what happens developmentally. He says that he gets frustrated but tells himself that our son is just a baby. He also listens to me when I tell him stuff about where the baby is at developmentally.

Another eye opener re development would be the Babies series on bbc which is still available on iPlayer. Tbh though I’m a bit surprised that you’re spending energy on finding reasons why he can’t clue in about child development. He could just listen to you for starters.

YANBU. She is a baby. Have you watched the recent 3-part BBC documentary series on this, 'Babies: Their Wonderful World'? (Babies: Their Wonderful World, Series 1: 3. Becoming Independent: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bvfwpj via @bbciplayer) Might help him understand?

I’m a bit surprised that you’re spending energy on finding reasons why he can’t clue in about child development.

I'm not. I've thanked people for the books suggestions, but explained why books won't really work for my DH (though have said I will try a method that will work with me reading the book and picking out bits for him! But that's been ignored/treated as not good enough.) and asked for articles or other media. It's other people who have bizzarely assumed that him struggling with reading a whole book somehow indicates that he doesn't give a fuck/doesn't want to learn.

Thank you for your suggestion for the TV series, I will look it up.

He could just listen to you for starters.

I'm not actually a childcare expert, this is our first child, I'm feeling my way in the dark. I know what works for me, but that's about it.

I signed my husband up for a babycenter toddler bulletin- he gets an email each week on what to expect development wise at our son’s age, what games to play, how to handle conflict situations, why toddlers do the maddening things they do etc.
It’s just bitesize chunks with links to dig deeper, there’s videos too.

I think it’s great you’re trying to support him to be a better parent and enjoy it more, you sound like you know there’s a line that can’t be crossed into abusive behaviour so try not to get too riled by pp’s

Also, does he have any Dad friends with kids a similar age? Could he make some?

Do you have a local children centre - they should run parenting courses. They are very helpful is describing normal behaviour and what you should expect.

@moaningsickness me too. we’re all just finding our way, but it seems like you’ve got a better handle on what’s going on developmentally. But from your posts it seems like he’s not taking your word for it? Could be wrong of course and some people need to seek out information themselves. My partner is good at accepting without questioning when I say something like ‘he’s not doing that deliberately’. He does acknowledge its very annoying, and says it seems very much like it’s deliberate, but he’s able to let it go :D Did your partner have a very disciplinarian upbringing? Worrying about being undermined sounds like he feels the need to be an authority... which tbh when they’re this small you kind of are by default, and authority does not necessarily equal disciplinarian. But yes, the babies series is an interesting watch and may be helpful. The bit on self control especially.

The baby programme on BBC is AMAZING!! I started watching it just now after reading through this thread and my DP who is usually not keen on books is watching with me with great interest!

Even with your backing down and making excuses for him I still think he sounds like an abusive bully.