To have fallen out with my brother today

[Iswallowtoothpaste]

My DB has a little girl’s whose just turned 2. We have a 5 YO DD who can be noisy, energetic and ever so slightly irritating at times but there’s no nastiness with her. She’s lovely and gentle with her little cousin.

My brother has been going through a hard time recently, he’s split with his GF who has gone back to her ex, fair enough, not the best of thugs to have to go through.

I’ve noticed recently that he’s been really quite short with DD. Sometimes it’s maybe called for example being if she’s getting in Dniece’s face a bit much but other times it feels like he’s snapping because he doesn’t like her.

If she tries to give him a cuddle he recoils - just recently I get the feeling that he absolutely dispises her.

Last week he’d snapped at her yet again so I’d snapped at him back and asked what his problem was. He said nothing and that he was just having a bad day so I reminded him that I wasn’t DD’s fault that he was having a bad day and that I wouldn’t dream of snapping at his little girl like that.

Today he came round again with DN. He changed her nappy as soon as he got here. DN was still laid on the floor and trying to pull her shoes off. DD went over and pulled her shoes off for her, we have a rule about no shoes in the house and DD was talking about this rule as she took the shoes off. My brother then walks back into the living room whilst DD is taking the shoes off and tells her to stop taking them off as he’s just put them back on. DD replies ‘but we have a rule that we’re not allowed to wear shoes isn’t thw house.’ I’m absolute mortified by what happened next, he grabbed my DD and plonked her down, pretty much from mid air with no care whatsoever, she stumbled back, didn’t hurt herself but it was the manner in which it was done. He had a face like thunder and it was quite aggressive like he couldn’t control his temper. He then snatched the shoes off DD and swore at her. I’ve told him to get out of our home. I wouldn’t dream of doing that to my own child never mind someone else’s.

I’m so upset for DD. After he’d gone she said ‘he hates me, doesn’t he?’

There’s no nastiness in her at all. She shares and plays nicely and is so gentle with younger children. Even her teachers have commented on how lovely she is with the younger children in the school.

I’m so upset and shocked by his behavior.

Salem, I might have some respect for your opinions on foot odour if you'd at least have the decency to spell it correctly. Misspelling a word you seem to use in every sentence is really annoying.

I wonder if men are more susceptible to taking on traits of abusive fathers than women?

My husband had an extremely abusive father, and I sometimes see that he could develop some traits if left unchecked (a desire to control, temper etc), but his sister does not have these traits yet has married a man that is also showing abusive traits.

Your husband and his sister are both recreating in the dynamic that existed in their family of origin

Yes, sadly, Wordthe, I think you're right.

@iswallowtoothpaste recognised your name so thought I'd just check in.
Firstly I hope your dd is OK, it is never OK for an adult to behave this way towards a child but at least she amazing support at home.
I've not been keeping upto date on the antenatal thread, so just wanted to check and see how things are going. Hope this stress is not getting to you to much.

Did your DB apologise, OP? Or even admit he was wrong?

@Exhaustedmummy1811 not too badly thanks, 18+1 now still having anxiety about everything but I guess that’s to be expected. Have started feeling more noticeable movements and flutters which is great, especially with an anterior placenta. How are you doing?

DD is fine and hasn’t mentioned anything his morning. DB did apologise but it was forced and didn’t seem genuine to me. His feelings must run so deep that he’s validated his actions in his own head somehow thinking that he’s not been unreasonable.

@Consolidate, to your point about whether we are more likely to take on the traits of the same sex parents I have no idea but from my own experience I can see that my partner has very similar traits to my mother and I can see that I in many ways am like his father

I wouldn't trust him round any children tbh

It is worrying that your dB took against your dd at birth, and has no patience with her.

I would keep her well out of his way.

He is behaving more like an immature child than she is. Bullying, tantrums, temper flaring!

He may have taken offence because she mentioned the shoes off rule, and he had his on. And a female that doesn't accept that is is always right is something to be feared?

How very bizarre of him today he's never warmed to your DD. Five year olds can be utterly annoying but a little baby???
How has he been up until now with her?

What a strange thread.

He shouldn't have manhanded and snapped at your daughter I don't think anybody including myself can justify those actions. It was best he removed himself from your home.

I do however think that as you know your DD can be full-on at times, and that he is going through a stressful time in general that you might have been a bit more proactive in ensuring so toned down the exuberance around DN and checking she wast being a nuisance. Also standing up for your DD is a no-brainer, but total banishment a bit dramatic. It's the sort of declaration said in the moment that he may well take seriously especially if you see each other infrequently. Just a thought.

@The4thSandersonSister

You might have missed the update, where his mum rang OP, and it turns out her brother has been getting drunk most nights, punching holes in walls, and has lost his temper and sworn at her DD before (OP didn't know this before conversation with his mum).

It sounds like jealousy, as you say you and your DB were always close and looked out for each other. If has the same resentment where your DSD is concerned, it could be that he feels like he's competing for your attention?

Either way, he's clearly very immature, and until he can put aside his dislike of your DD and DSD then you should keep your distance for the moment.

@The4thSandersonSister

Don't you agree that it's very extreme that he's disliked his DN since she was a baby? Who reacts like that to a newborn??

And if the path is continually muddy, I would have cemented a path or done something to fix it. Something like that could cause falls.

Hilarious!

Are you being delibetately goady?
Op lives on a fucking farm! Have you ever been to a farm in winter?

My friend lives on a farm and the cows go past her house twice a day for milking. The mess is not just mud! Nobody is suggesting livestock are roaming free ffs.

Mumsnet never ceases to amaze me! We've gone from an issue regarding the conduct of an adult with a child to concrete your yard and stop ordering people to remove their shoes when in your home, amazing!

OP, your brother is going through a difficult time but that is not an excuse to lash out at a child.

I think perhaps what you have been picking up on from him where you feel he despises her is maybe overanalysing on your part? He is dealing with a lot and so may be struggling with other things which you are interpreting as dislike for your daughter.

He may just not be in a good place and so hugs (he almost recoiled from her attempt at a cuddle), patience and awareness of others may just be something that he's not always capable of at this stage.
You also say that his own daughter is not with him overnight but with your mum so perhaps he is not coping very well.

I absolutely do not think he should ever have spoken to ANY child like that or been aggressive in his manner. If you otherwise have a good relationship then please approach him with some understanding and warmth and address the problem at hand rather than throw out labels and accusations. He may need your support right now and of course you need him to understand what he has done.
I think if you told him how you have increasingly been feeling about his interaction with your daughter, he would probably feel awful about himself. I am not suggesting you excuse his behaviour, I am merely suggesting that there is no need to ignite world war 3 as has been suggested or to cut him out of your life (very extreme!) after all there are 2 little cousins involved that love one another and families go through various ups and downs together.

I hope you get it all sorted out soon.

And I forgot to add,

ANY home that allows outside shoes inside is in my opinion not a clean home. It may be tidy, but not clean. All of the filth that we walk on when outside, other peoples spit, urine, animal faeces, perhaps even human faeces! Ultimately, tracking even small traces of that into your home, your own personal space - vomit inducing.

It takes 2 seconds to remove outside shoes and to me anyone home that doesn't, has questionable standards of cleanliness.

@The4thSandersonSister my DD did nothing wrong. It would’ve been different if a man had done this to a woman.

I only just saw your picture. Wow! Beautiful hillside. Aren't you worried though about your child's safety? An animal butting a window? Large animals like that are dangerous, I cannot believe you are just allowed to have them roaming near the house like that! What country do you live in, where that would even be allowed? That is a lawsuit waiting to happen, or a deathwish at the very least! No, genuinely, what country are you in?

Funniest post this year!

Op
What a horrible situatuon for you.
Your brother has serious issues that only he can solve if he wants to.
Maybe some plain talking from your mum and stepdad that if he doesnt start acting like an adult and respect them and thier house and pay up.on time he can find somewhere else to live. Your mum shouldnt have to put up with that.
Maybe he will find arguing over rent with a landlord much harder tjan.he thinks?

You are definately right to keep him away from your child. She has done nothing wrong ignore all the apologists on here excusing male violence.

I really hope your db wakes up and gets help with his anger and drinking before he loses everything.

@HoneyDoo have you actually RTFT?

@Happypie are you out of your mind? The 5 year old didn't argue. Just stated what the house rule was. That's not arguing.
A grown man manhandling a small girl? That's awful. Maybe that's why his ex left him because he can't control his temper.

Your brother was completely wrong in the way he acted and talked to your daughter and I wouldn't allow him around her again.

However I don't think that automatically means he would ever be that way with his own daughter especially after the conversation you had with your niece's other grandmother.

Some people simply don't like other people's kids even if they're their family. It IS different with your own kids.

I find continuous crying from other people's kids to be Extremely annoying, but when my daughter cries it's completely different. Some of my very young cousins annoy me greatly, whereas my daughter doesn't. I'm well mannered enough to hide my annoyance and keep my mouth shut. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think there is some form of jealousy/resentment on your brother's part.

Also, if your dad had MH issues, is your brother suffering from the same thing?