Adults who won't drive

[Homethroughthepuddles]

I'm not talking about those who have health difficulties or can't afford a car. Just those who can't be bothered to learn, or who learn but can't be bothered to sit their test.

I'm once again spending Christmas having to do all the ferrying around and staying off the wine, while my sister, who has learnt to drive and even bought a car but has refused to sit her test, has been chauffeured around and been able to drink as much as she likes.

With my mother getting older and more reliant on lifts it's very annoying.

We have some in our family too. Generally just expect lifts, for you to go out of your way, not have a drink and drive long distances and it does piss me off some times. What is the worst is when they just have no understanding of how tiring long distance driving is and expect you to just ferry them about when you get to the destination as well.

I think being a non driver is fine if you accept that running a car is expensive and that money you save on not running a car is therefore to be spent on taxis.

Quite. A car costs at least a grand a year in fixed costs, plus fuel, unless you are either very lucky or don't account for it properly. If you include depreciation and the cost of capital it's more like two grand.

That's a lot of Ubers.

We've never found it "essential to have a car driver in the family".

We've asked for help from a driver twice in the last year. Neither time would have been a huge issue if they'd said no.

In the last year there is one thing we wanted to do but we can't because we don't drive. Public transport is available but son would probably get travel sick and we wouldn't be able to stop for some air/walk around on public transport so we can't do it.

I disagree that the majority of non-drivers expect others to ferry them around. If anyone has a non-drivers who expects them to do so and they don't want to, just say no.

*correction: the one thing we wanted to do is on a coach so not public transport as such.

@drspouse we've asked for help twice in the last year. One was for something I didn't want to do anyway so would have quite liked them to say no!

YANBU. My exh is well into his thirties and has never bothered learning how to drive. We live 40 miles apart and he still relies on trains to collect or drop off the DC. If, for whatever reason, there’s a train strike or the train times that day are rubbish etc or another brilliant example being Christmas/Boxing Day when trains don’t run, he expects me or my DP to do all the ferrying back and forth. He’s been ‘learning to drive’ since I met him 12 years ago but I don’t think he’s ever taken a lesson . Very irritating.

Oh yes, car commandeering. Years back I had a hideous boss who, despite it being in my contract, decided to save money by removing my parking pass. When I lived in town I was always more than happy to walk or use public transport, but I live in the country with poor public transport. She knew this when I got the job.

Funnily enough, she would book courses or meetings miles away and would tell me where and when to pick her up in my car of course. I just told her I didnt use it for work very often now due to the difficulties in getting a parking place and the cost of car parking locally. So we would both have to get the bus - separately.

My brother has had a lifelong sense of entitlement to my car as well. Often decided to get off the train many stations earlier than the destination so I would have the privilege of taking time off work, disrupting the children etc to collect him. He then told me he expected to be able to use my car to learn to drive (what??) because he was under the misapprehension my late dm had contributed to my car. She had absolutely not. Told him he was welcome to when he paid towards petrol, servicing, road tax, MOT etc. Funnily enough he never asked again. Not easy to say no, but sadly essential.

Not everyone has elderly relatives who need ferrying around [confused{

I think being a non driver is fine if you accept that running a car is expensive and that money you save on not running a car is therefore to be spent on taxis
Uh, I don't think you get to tell me how I have to spend the money I'm not sinking into car ownership! I don't need a taxi more than once in a blue moon- I certainly don't need thousands of pounds worth of taxis a year.

Yabu, not everyone can drive, I had panic attacks every time I took my test. We manage well enough without lifts

We don’t drive. DH plans to learn after we’ve paid for a vasectomy it will be our next thing to throw money at. I’ve tried to learn, but being behind the wheel makes me so anxious that I don’t retain anything from the lesson - not the instructors fault, I chose him as he was highly regarded on local FB groups for being good for nervous learners.

I don’t generally expect lifts, I even turn them down and get the bus instead. My mum is a proper caraholic though (10 mins walk? Let’s drive it!) and thinks I’m bonkers for catching a bus rather than asking her to drive 30 mins to my house so she can give me a lift somewhere.

Worse that that is those who can drive, but only on local roads they know. So they won’t go on motorways or anywhere that they don’t know how to get to. So ridiculous

I imagine they don't feel confident driving on motorways and surely it is better not to rather than endanger lives by doing so?

Considering the amount of threads about relatives where the standard advise is go nc I should think a large number of elderly people have to fend for themselves

I think there are many people who, no matter how hard they try, cannot drive. Learning to drive is harder than normal for these people or driving is a real fear for them. They don't drive through choice

@WendyWoofer

Your replies should have been:
Xmas Eve at 11pm - no sorry we expected you at 5pm and have now had a drink. You'll need to get a cab.
Xmas Day - no time, and everywhere is closed, you will have to survive a few hours without your disgusting revolting stinky habit maybe you should have thought ahead hmm?

He's a CF and being a non driver is almost a side issue, sounds like he would be a CF anyway whatever the circumstances.

It's up to everybody to decide what works best for them (or indeed which options are open to them, based on health and financial considerations), but most people who have the space and money for one would have their own washing machine, shower and computer, so why is a car any different?

Because turning on a shower or washing machine does not require lessons and exams prior to the issue of a licence. Because going online/using a computer takes the same level of aptitude whether it’s your machine or one found in a library.

Driving and owning a car is not only expensive, but requires a skill that doesn’t come naturally to many people. Comparing this to using a launderette, where the activity is exactly the same but the ownership of the machine is different, doesn’t make sense.

*When my sil was buying a house she was hugely limited by the fact that she couldn't drive. She had to walk away from really nice affordable places because the train station was too far away/the bus service was poor/she'd have to walk down a very dark lonely road to get home from the station at nighttime.

She ended up really compromising in order to get a house she could afford near and a safe walk to a train station.

Likewise I know of someone who had to turn down a really good job offer recently because the commute by public transport would have been unrealistic.

So not being able to drive is limiting unless you can afford and want to live near a city or big town.*

What happens if you take the great job, but your car breaks down? Or is stolen? Or you break your leg and can’t drive? Or you have financial issues and can no longer afford to run a car? How do you get to work when you’ve bought a house that’s too far from decent transport links to be accessible without driving?

What happens if you meet a partner who can’t drive? If you have kids and, once they reach their teens and want some independence, they can’t have it because you have to drive them everywhere? Isn’t being totally reliant on a car also limiting?

I rarely drink and it seems silly for me to get a taxi just to avoid doing lifts and I do do lifts and most of the time I don’t mind but sometimes I’m just ready to go home, not ready to drive across town and then go home.
My partner lost his lisence 10 years ago drink driving, very silly but although we’re not married I’m here through thick and thin and when the DVLA temporarily took mine due to unstable bipolar he supported the shit out of me, so I’ll continue to support him by offering him lifts to make his life easier.

Sorry, but it IS self-limiting - not in a sense of being unable to do something at all but in making things much less convenient or straightforward than they could be

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Surely you realise there are places where the access to public transport means life is just as straightforward as having a car?

And in fact more so in some situations!

I did go on to say that it’s up to people to decide what works for them. I still maintain that, if you drive (whether you own a car or not), you can still get public transport as an alternative, but a non-driver only has one of those choices, so IS more limited. The effects of that limitation will vary from person to person and may be of little consequence to many. I don’t have a passport, which is self-limiting, but as I'm not bothered about going abroad (and have health issues that would make insurance a bit of a minefield), I'm perfectly happy to live with that self-imposed limitation.

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How is it less convenient or straightforward though?

I know the timetables and routes of the 2 buses that stop at the bus stop a 30 second walk from my front door. I know exactly which bus I need to get to work on time and which bus stop goes to which bus.

If I know I need to be somewhere at a specific time/place where a bus/train isn't convenient I prebook a taxi. If it's a last minute thing then I book a taxi on one of my local taxi firms apps which tells me exactly how long the wait is. I have booked a taxi and had it be outside my door before I've had chance to turn off the lights, put on my shoes and coat and pick up my keys.

Again, I did go on to say that it’s up to people to decide what works for them. You’re happy with your arrangements and preparations and that’s great; however, I too have those options available to me whereas you don’t have the ability to jump straight into a car and drive yourself anywhere at a moment’s notice, so you are more limited, even if it causes you no practical issues and you’re perfectly happy with things as they are. If you lived rurally, this may be a completely different matter, though, which would therefore limit your choices of where to live, should you ever be interested in considering living somewhere rural.

It's up to everybody to decide what works best for them (or indeed which options are open to them, based on health and financial considerations), but most people who have the space and money for one would have their own washing machine, shower and computer, so why is a car any different?

Because turning on a shower or washing machine does not require lessons and exams prior to the issue of a licence. Because going online/using a computer takes the same level of aptitude whether it’s your machine or one found in a library.

Driving and owning a car is not only expensive, but requires a skill that doesn't come naturally to many people. Comparing this to using a launderette, where the activity is exactly the same but the ownership of the machine is different, doesn't make sense.

As I said, and you actually quoted, [it depends on] “which options are open to them, based on health and financial considerations”.* By natural extension, I would include a lack of natural aptitude or confidence, fear, anxiety etc. as personal/health considerations.

What I wrote was primarily a response to a PP who wholesale accused car drivers of being “hugely lacking in imagination and organisational skills if they feel that’s their only option.” This came across (to me, at least) as a somewhat self-righteous ‘taking the moral high ground’ statement from somebody apparently believing car drivers as pathetic creatures relying pitifully on their cars as a crutch or comforter rather than simply wanting one of many available useful everyday tools or conveniences in their lives. What I intended to convey was that, if somebody has the available funds and physical, mental and emotional ability to do so, and decides to attempt to learn to drive, succeeds and subsequently gets themselves a car, believing it to be a practical tool to assist them in conducting their life, it’s a completely valid and normal thing to do and not some lack of moral fibre or a bizarre kind of cry for help.

Yanbu.

I drive but my dad doesn’t and my mum did always I think it’s up to the person it doesn’t matter just say no

Genuine question for those who insist that public transport is every bit as convenient as driving: Do you still find this to be the case with holidays? How do you manage? Do you never rent a cottage or other accommodation outside of a large conurbation, go camping (with anything more than a big rucksack) or go touring or travelling except for organised coach tours?

My parents didn't have a car when my DSis and I were young (and, as they ran their own shop, we never had the wherewithal or the time to go abroad), so we could only pack what would fit in a few suitcases, had to get taxis to and from the railway stations, find somewhere on the train for our luggage (and watch it carefully) and haul it between trains when we needed to change. We couldn't get an early start as we couldn't arrive at our accommodation before we were allowed to check in and then, on leaving day, we had to vacate the room by 10:00 am and go straight home.

This was awkward enough as I remember when we were older, but what it must have been like for our parents when they had two young children to contend with as well - who could not carry their own luggage and indeed often had to be carried themselves - I dread to think. I presume they just didn't go until I (as the younger one) was a certain age.

Nowadays, we just shove shed-loads of stuff that we might use in the car and it either stays there or goes into the accommodation, ready and waiting safely and patiently to be used whenever we want it. We can get to the destination town and then leave whenever we want to, as well as stopping wherever we choose to, for how long we choose to, on the way.

Much as I loved holidays with my parents, I'm in no doubt whatsoever as to which transport method I prefer.

It's fine not to drive. It's not fine to expect friends who drive to ferry you around by default. Driving costs time, energy and money!

We live in the USA and the public transport is not good unless you are living in a central part of the city, which is very expensive. My eldest dd who is 18 passed her test at 17 and drives herself and her siblings around and has lots of independence. Of course if we lived in a location with good public transport then a teenager could be just as independent but that is not an option where we live. I like that she has the ability to go wherever she wants when she wants. I also wanted her to have what I consider to be an important life skill mastered as soon as possible. I’m a Brit and the two countries/cultures are very different and the US is much more car-dependent generally. Even so, I would not want to be an adult that could not use a car as an option, it is just narrowing your choices in life. For example in some jobs being able to drive is essential so you would have to rule out certain careers. I couldn’t imagine a police detective, secret service agent or senior customs officer who couldn’t drive.

As this thread is about people who CHOOSE not to drive, not those who have no choice, you can’t expect other people to make up for you a shortcoming you have. I will make sure all three of our teens can drive before they leave home to attend university or become independent.

My brother is in his 50s and never wanted to drive, he does walk a lot and is mega fit due to this. Hes one of those guys that wants a simple life with zero responsibilities. Recently my family (all north and local to one another) suggested going away together for two nights his excited suggestion was Poole harbor his words "it's nice there"... yeah great if you don't have to drive for six hours to get there. It's the expectation that they chose to bypass responsibility of driving onto someone else. Who in the right mind would want to drive for six hours for a two night trip 🙄