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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Putting men before DCs

444 replies

Write · 20/12/2018 11:42

I expect to be flamed but I’m beyond caring at this stage, sorry if that sounds goady!

I know so many women in real life who have jeapordized their children’s quality of life for a new men and sadly I know a few who have endangered their children too. I feel like banging my head against a wall!

A relative of mine has just moved her two DCs away from their schools, family and even got rid of their beloved dog to move halfway across the county with a man who has never worked a day in his life into his tiny filthy flat.
I’ve had friends allow (and be delighted) with brand new boyfriends minding their under 2 year old babies.

I can’t see how these otherwise intelligent women can be so blinded by love!

OP posts:
RiverTam · 20/12/2018 13:44

is it about sexual desires? Or is it about the overweening importance of having a man, whatever the cost?

Roomba · 20/12/2018 13:44

I've been single (not celibate, but not far off!) since I split with my children's father 5+ years ago. I don't believe parents must stay celibate forevermore, but introducing your kids to one new partner after another within weeks of leaving their other parent isn't any good for them imo. My children need my time and their mental wellbeing is my priority right now. I wouldn't introduce then to a new partner until I knew they were likely to be a permanent fixture in our lives and the partner would have to fit into our lives, not the other way round. I've seen so many of my friends do the opposite of this and it hasn't done their kids any good at all.

Notacluethisxmas · 20/12/2018 13:46

But it's not just about high level stuff - I know women who just accept crap - not abusive or anything close to it - but just crap men in their lives.

But that's not just women with kids having a new relationship.

Many women put up with shit from the father of their children too and dont entertain leaving.

While I agree with the OP in general I think alot of women (or people) who I know seem to rush into relationships. Even those without kids

Roomba · 20/12/2018 13:46

Maybe I feel so strongly because my ex had married a new partner and had another child within a year of us splitting. If I did that too, my kids would feel they had no stability, whether right or wrong.

Sparklesocks · 20/12/2018 13:47

When we were teens one of my friend's mums just packed up and moved to Spain to be with a holiday romance, my friend was left back home with her dad.
They have a relationship now but it's very fractured, and my friend has severe trust and abandonment issues.

Huggybear16 · 20/12/2018 13:47

I met my partner when my son was 5 months old. Within 2 months he had moved in. 6 years later we are still together.

Luckily, for your son, things worked out for you. But after 2 months, you did not know that man well enough to allow him to share a home with your son. This was your son's home and you brought a stranger in to live with you. At 5 months old, he couldn't have even told you if something happened.

Eliza9917 · 20/12/2018 13:48

@LonleyAndTiredAndLow I don't think no maintenance/falling into poverty is the worst thing that can happen to a child after their parents split.

If only it was.

Notacluethisxmas · 20/12/2018 13:50

Yes. Can I point out that men do this.

My kids are split 60:40 between me and my ex.

He met someone and within 3 months was living with her and her kids and my kids. My kids are there alot. Not the odd night.

Oakenbeach · 20/12/2018 13:52

You never know if anyone is safe. Teachers. Mothers. Enhanced DBS. Priests. TV personalities. Are you that nieve that you think certain people can be trusted because of their position in society?

By your twisted logic you seems to be saying that because you can’t be absolutely certain that anyone is safe, you might as well accept that everyone is safe! Hmm

BitchQueen90 · 20/12/2018 13:53

And I think when people who moved new partners in after 5 minutes say "well it worked out fine for us" is annoying as well. Yes, it might have worked out but there is every chance that it couldn't have and you were happy to take that chance moving a virtual stranger in with your child. Moving partners in so quickly has absolutely no benefit to children at all, it's done solely for the benefit of the adults and that's wrong.

Mulberry72 · 20/12/2018 13:54

A friend of mine is currently throwing herself into a relationship with a man she met OLD.

They’re both divorced, two DC each (one of hers has quite significant SN) and have known each other approx 15/16 weeks, they’ve got holidays booked for them all and are looking at moving in together in the New Year.

She’s been married more than once and is completely incapable of being on her own, she’s a beautiful, articulate, intelligent woman with a good career but the man in her life always seems to come first, and the poor DC just trail behind. She’s absolutely allowed to be happy, have a relationship and a social life but not to the detriment of the DC.

She seems to lose all sense of perspective and reality when there’s a man involved.

Biologifemini · 20/12/2018 13:56

A lot of people have terrible role models so it isn’t a surprise.
If your mother did the same and it is all you know and you feel no shame at social services getting involved then what do you expect?
Some people are starved of love so will hook up with the first idiot who tells them they have nice eyes. It is extremely difficult to teach self esteem if someone wasn’t brought up surrounded by love. And if you aren’t very bright then that makes things worse.
Be grateful you aren’t like this.

JacquesHammer · 20/12/2018 13:58

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either a single mother or a single father having a relationship. What is important for me is how that relationship is handled with regards to any children.

My ex met his now wife 5 months after we had separated. He only ever saw her when he didn’t have our DD and didn’t even tell DD he had a girlfriend until they’d been dating 12 months. It was a further 6 months before she met DD and she insisted on meeting me first.

I have remained single for the time since we separated (almost 5 years now).

Guess which of us has received the negative comments?

Write · 20/12/2018 14:03

Thanks for all the replies.

I do know of two extremely successful situations where the man wasn’t wonderful and raised the current children as if they were his own and they’re not adults now and adore their stepdad, so I know it’s not all doom and gloom.

I’m 100% not woman bashing (I could write for days about DDs father and how despite doing his best and them having a great relationship, she’s never his number 1 priority)
I just can’t believe the recklessness of some of the women in my life. So many awful stories I could share but I fear they’d be too outing. I just cannot comprehend the thought process of once doting mothers. I’m not one for “mummy guilt” at all and don’t think children should rule the roost but so many times these kids are treated like second class citizens (at best!) to facilitate new relationships

OP posts:
MisstoMrs · 20/12/2018 14:05

@biologifemini I take your point, absolutely.

I would just counter by saying that people can be surrounded by love & positive role models and still make terrible choices. My cousin is like this. He blames his dyslexia which was diagnosed very early at school and he had a lot of support both at home and at school for it. But even so that apparently that explains why he is a drug dealer & addict who lives off social services and petty crime. I’m sorry, I just don’t buy it. Most people could find a ‘reason’ in their childhood if they wanted to.

My point, I guess, is that we should be setting standards in society that don’t encourage people to look for excuses for poor choices but to own them. I had an abusive relationship in my 20s. Yes, because my mum had cancer I was desperate for love but I still made that choice. I own that. And I should.

As I said, there will be cases, such as abuse (and I would include emotional abuse in that) where that reasoning doesn’t apply.

StepMug · 20/12/2018 14:06

My DSC Mum did that. Moved herself and kids into his one bedroom flat - they’re with us half the time but even so. It was reported to social services multiple times for various reasons - DSC complaining he was abusuve to them and their DM. Even when she’d had her children removed (albeit to their DF) she still never really got what all the fuss was about. He left her in the end and she was allowed access to her DCs again but it never stopped her finding someone else just weeks later. The whole thing was horrifying to watch. SW said that it just looked like her kids were a hindrance to her lifestyle.

PawneeParksDept · 20/12/2018 14:21

OP isn't unreasonable

A friend of mine has become near unrecognisable as the same person due to this

They were like a Disney Family, and then their marriage fell apart with wild accusations.

The XH has moved on with a new partner and baby and they live a stable life

My friend deliberately set out to and basically destroyed her DCs relationship with a loving hands on Dad. She has as good as admitted she did this.

And she has bounced from man to man house to house ever since in a really baffling way that has suited her need to be in a relationship but not suited the DC at all. All of them show varying signs of needing a CAMHS intervention including self harm Sad

I also at times feel concerned for her Mental Health and one of her ex's had to report her to the police on multiple occasions

This was a mum who was all about the DC, and family time and experiences

She's like a different person.

YANBU OP

Graphista · 20/12/2018 14:24

Spirited London - how old are you? Have you much life experience?

I'm 46 and I've seen this in real life with appalling long term effects. Friends & family have told me of instances they know of this, and as pp says there's loads of examples on the relationship board on here.

One "family" where the parents who both had residency of their then early teen children, announce on a weekend that they'd sold their respective homes and bought another larger one together and the whole lot were moving in together that Monday - yep 2 days notice! They'd been dating less than a year. They ended up together about 5 years, by then the damage to the parent/child relationships were deeply entrenched. All the children involved, are now adults and have children of their own. I'm still in contact with the woman's side and she bemoans that her children have little time for her and she rarely sees her grandchildren, well you reap what you sow. She's done nothing to try and repair the relationship with her children just expects them to treat her well and not even mention her fuck ups!

Another family I know, mother was cheating on the father, that relationship broke down, affair partner presented as new partner a few months after (but kids knew as they'd seen mum kissing him prior to marital breakdown, at the time too young to completely make sense of it), a couple years later kids in boarding school (I suspect due to him not wanting them around) they came home for a school holiday to discover their mother had married him - without even telling them. Again, relationship between kids and mother permanently wrecked basically.

Single mum who hates being single, stays in same home (and somehow thinks this makes it ok) but every year - 2 years a new guy moves in with them usually less than 6 months of dating in (and that can include mum only knowing them that length of time). Relationship breaks up, swears she's not making same mistake again... Until she meets another and then it's "but he's different" 🙄

Personally I've been single 15 years - as in not lived with or even introduced anyone to dd in that time as nobody I've dated has been worth it or around long enough. But then I'm not entirely sure that's a huge improvement either as it means dd hasn't lived with an example of a good relationship but then my experience is that there's very few good relationships out there. Out of everyone I know - around 200 friends according to Facebook, a few aren't on there - there's less than 12 I would say are good healthy relationships, and of those only 3 don't involve at least one party having been in a previous marriage/long term relationship.

I didn't plan things this way it's just how it's turned out.

My own mother prioritised my dad all our lives. So it's not just single mums/parents that do this. He's a violent, abusive, narcissistic alcoholic. He always comes first with her always has. She denies but there's been times I and my siblings really needed her presence and support but because my dad has made it awkward for her she's prioritised him every time.

Peaksafespace - the first situation disrupts the children's education, friendships, home, support network and even removes a beloved pet and puts them into an unsuitable home! That's in no way shape or form at all arguably in any way positive!

The second - I don't know about you but I've NEVER left dd with anyone I don't know extremely well of either sex and (admittedly due to own experiences) there are fewer than 5 men I have or would ever leave her in their sole care! I think that's largely sensible and normal.

Do you really see nothing wrong with BRAND NEW boyfriends being left being the sole carer of a child at an age when they're most vulnerable and can't even tell anyone if the boyfriend treats them like shit?! That's appallingly poor parenting bordering on neglect/abuse in my opinion!

"Why don't you start a thread about all those households where the parents shout and argue in front of the kids all day long then? I suspect there are a lot more of those than single mums who find another man." Both are bad, entirely possible to have a thread about one without denying the other happens. And I'd argue (see my own background/experience) that often this is just another example of parents prioritising their needs over their children's.

I've also seen single dads rush to introduce their new partners to their children, often affair partners and with no regard to the effects on the children - very common actually.

"Judging by the defensive or deflective posts from some on here, I’m guessing a number of the posters are exactly the ones the OP is referring to!" Quite possible.

"You never know if anyone is safe. Teachers. Mothers. Enhanced DBS. Priests. TV personalities.

Are you that nieve that you think certain people can be trusted because of their position in society?" No you never know, but statistically men are far more likely to be abusive than women, particularly sexually. Also background checks, knowing someone well reduces the risk. Leaving a very vulnerable child with a man you barely know is plain stupid!

Pinknike - op specifically said BRAND NEW boyfriend, not one the mothers known 3 years who likely knows the children well. And with children under 2 who are much less likely to be clearly verbal.

"They care more about their own sexual desires than the wellbeing of their children." Totally agree!

"And overall neediness and inability to be on their own" yep.

I also think 6 months MINIMUM. Before new boyfriends/girlfriends are even introduced to children. Not just the potential for abuse, but to avoid the emotional damage done by children getting attached to someone, the relationship ends and then they lose someone they cared about even maybe loved. You cannot possibly know if a relationship even has potential before then imo. Personally I'd say 9 month to a year even better. And yes posters who admit they introduced their children to new people in 3 months or less are selfish, irresponsible and not prioritising their children appropriately. Absolutely no need for it.

Lonelyandtired - I am just as critical of poor behaviour from fathers too. Perfectly possible to hate both types of shit parenting. The lack of enforcement of maintenance laws, the low level of maintenance, introduction of new gf too soon, prioritising new gf kids over own kids, not seeing own kids - all just as despicable and discussed a lot on mn but not what this particular thread is about. And just because there are shit dads doesn't mean shit mums should escape censure.

Madnstressed - I'd say that was more luck than judgment. 2 months is no time at all to know anyone. I wouldn't houseshare with someone I'd only known that long! Let alone move in a new boyfriend with such a young baby.

"I don't think no maintenance/falling into poverty is the worst thing that can happen to a child after their parents split.

If only it was." So sadly true.

Also - regarding those saying "it worked out for us" you can't really know for sure until the kids involved are adults. Many abuse victims don't disclose until then. Other low level issues may well also not be revealed until then.

I also know of families where step-parents were carefully and gradually introduced, the children adore them, all parents prioritise the children, original children, step and half siblings are all treated equally/fairly. Step and blended families CAN work very well. I have one friend who was walked down the aisle by both her biological father and her stepfather, both men got along very well to the point when one became terminally ill the other was one of the people involved in their care. If adults actually act like adults it can work extremely well.

Georgiaposy · 20/12/2018 14:30

I have seen this happen a fair bit. It is so sad for the children and the risks can be great.

I have DC from an earlier ex, we were split about 3 years when I met my now DH. I dated him for 15 months before my DC even knew about him and he came with us on days outs etc. He didn't stay overnight with them in the same house for another 6 months. Then after 12 months of him seeing the DC we all moved into a bigger house down the road from my parents.

DH knows my DC comes first, even now, many years and a shared DC later. He is a fantastic stepfather, but even if he was father to all of them, they would still come first. My ex had an issue with that and still doesn't put them first now (also was why he left).

jessstan2 · 20/12/2018 14:36

I agree with the op, don't understand it. I do understand the desire to have a boyfriend but not moving in with them or moving them in and not introducing to kids until they are well known.

knittedjest · 20/12/2018 14:52

A child is more likely to be abused and killed by an unrelated adult who resides with than anybody else. It's a well documented phenomenon and even has it's own name, The cinderella effect, if anybody wants to research it further and believed to be part of our evolutionary makeup where a stepparent will abuse a stepchild so that they aquire less resources so there is more for their biological children, giving higher chance that their Dna will be passed on. It's true for both male and female stepparents but stepmothers will emotionally abuse the child to create emotional distance between parent and child while males will physically abuse.

Notacluethisxmas · 20/12/2018 15:01

The Cinderella effect has been challenged several times and isn't conclusive.

Especially since it looked at crimes that the genetic parent commited.

SnuggyBuggy · 20/12/2018 15:01

It's easy for the adults to say it worked for them.

FaFoutis · 20/12/2018 15:06

I agree Snuggy.

Huggybear16 · 20/12/2018 15:11

It's easy for the adults to say it worked for them

Indeed. Many of the women in the examples given think that it is working out for them, so blinded by their love for their new man that they can't see how devastating it is for their children.

I'd actually go further and say that anyone posting that "It worked for them" need to have a good long look in the mirror and ask themselves if they really did act in the best interests of their children. I doubt they did.

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