Wife no libido

[B1ug1f]

Seen a few similar threads but this has a twist.
My wife has no libido. We have sex 3 times a year if that. I love the thought of having a healthy sex life with her. She has gone through the menopause and is dry down below. She has tried various remedies but have not worked. Sex is painful for her so i fully understand she doesn't want it. I am horny for her all the time.i love her. I have asked her if she would pleasure me or give me oral to take away the constant urge and huge frustrations i have. I know i have to be patient and supportive which i am but i get no effection at all from her. Am i being insensitive.my only relief is masterbation. A womans view would be appreciated

Some good comments. At last an even debate. I know sex is off the menu but closeness is cuddles, kissing .....as well as the obvious...thank you

I think some of the comments on here are incredibly misanthropic and you're being given an unnecessarily hard time OP. You sound thoughtful, supportive and kind.
Yes your wife is going through a hard time but she is shutting you out by denying you any affection. Other posters are telling you to stop thinking of yourself but I really don't think you are. Your wife needs to think about you too.
And I'm sorry but those who are suggesting just have a wank are totally missing the point. Sex with a partner is so much more than a quick physical relief. I feel sorry for those whose experience of sex leads them to think it is comparable.
I don't really have much advice other than try talking to her. Listen to her concerns but also tell her how you feel. To my mind she is rejecting you and shutting you out.
I hope you find a solution to this OP. For me, a partner who showed no affection and made no attempt to meet my physical needs would be a gonna.
And I think the reality is that many would be seeking intimacy elsewhere in this situation. Some of the posters on here are being unrealistic in suggesting you just accept that sex is off for the foreseeable future. That's not real life. That no way to live.

I think it's quite telling that the posters advocating women just give blow jobs to please their partner when they themselves don't want sex are those who 'feel sorry' for women who don't agree with that.
Quite worrying really, hope you don't pass on those pearls of wisdom to your daughters.
DD: men get horny. You will love them so you will want to satisfy that, even when you're tired, because it's about compromise you see.
No woman should be pressured or expected to service a man's sexual needs. Ever.
The OP is free to leave at any point. He is not free to make his wife want to blow him off.

70s, you're so obsessed with making this "Man vs Woman" you're completely missing the point that both partners should be able to think about what their OH wants.

It's not about JUST men wanting sex from women.

It's about men AND women working together to have a happy relationship.

If that means I give oral to my partner til my tongue cramps rather than just sticking my penis in her, then that's what I do. Because her pleasure is important to me.

If that means that she gives me a quick handjob when she's not in the mood for PIV, then she's happy to do that. Because my pleasure is important to her.

In the same way I'll paint her toenails or she'll pluck some errant hair off my shoulders. In a decent relationship you get happiness and satisfaction from giving your partner happiness and satisfaction. It's reciprocal, and part of love.

Just, for a moment, forget this Man vs Woman shit going on in your head. If it helps, imagine the OP is a lesbian whose girlfriend is doing this.

70s you miss my point.
I feel sorry for any person, be they man or woman, who equates masturbation with sex with a partner. To me there is no comparison. The first is a short lived physical release. The second is a beautiful way of showing love and affection mutually. So yes, I do feel sorry for anyone who has not experienced that or who feels a quick wank is comparable.
I am not advocating giving a BJ on request but I do think there is room for compromise here. If the OP's wife cares for him, she will want to sometimes pleasure him to show her love.

It's not shit going on in my head thanks. I'd say the same in a same sex relationship, except, women tend not to go on like dogs without bones when it comes to needing to be 'relieved'.
I give oral to my partner till my tongue cramps
That's nice of you . I'm sure they're grateful at your amazingness.
Was there a reason you were so graphic? Is it to demonstrate your awesomeness as a partner? By demonstrating sexual prowess?
Not convinced by your point tbh. It does strike me on MN how many men gravitate towards the sex topics though, proportionally, in comparison to the minority of men on the forum in general. Yet on the sex threads there are loads of them.
Wonder why.

I never equated anything Macaroni. I suggested that women should not ever be expected to provide anything, even just to 'show love'.
The comparisons to making tea are not appropriate.
You either expect a woman to perform on demand or you don't. I choose that you don't.
There's no black and white. I've nothing against a woman who wants to please their bloke but the OP's wife doesn't, and shouldn't be made to. He knows where the door is. Being 'horny for her' is his problem, it is controllable (despite his intense 'frustrations') yet he's desperate to fix the discomfort he feels from being unable to have sex with someone he finds attractive.
Sorry, but that isn't enough for her to be expected to satiate those discomforts no matter how loving the relationship.

And returning to the OP's first post about this being a repetitive thread 'with a twist', what's the twist?!

70s I did not make the comparison with tea nor do I think it is comparable.
However I do not think it is reasonable for one partner to withhold sex and physical affection and expect the other just to be fine with it. That is changing the parameters of the relationship. It is terribly sad that the OP is faced with either a life without any physical intimacy or affection or to leave. To my mind that shows a lack of love from the OP's wife. Of course she shouldn't have sex if she doesn't want to or if it makes her uncomfortable but there is no reason why she can't show the OP affection. She should also talk about his needs with him and think about alternatives. It is not acceptable to expect him to live in a sexless and more significantly, affectionless relationship forever. If you love someone you compromise and yes, that might mean occasionally pleasuring them, not because you're servicing them but because you care about their needs.

In fact it's hardly a "loving relationship" if the OP's wife shows no affection and makes no attempt to understand his perspective! He needs to understand her situation and she needs to understand his - compromise. Not "he knows where the door is" - that's so sad and again, hardly a loving relationship.
I've seen this so many times, where one partner refuses all physical intimacy and affection then is enraged when their rejected partner (who suffers incredible hurt and rejection) either cheats on them or leaves. Physical rejection is a passive aggressive way of ending a relationship because the partner who wants the physical aspect is backed into a corner: either endure enforced celibacy, cheat or leave. From the outside they are the baddie yet they have been forced into those decisions.

Was there a reason you were so graphic?

It's a thread about libido. If you're discomfited when discussing sex in an open and transparent fashion, maybe you shouldn't click the thread?

Is it to demonstrate your awesomeness as a partner? By demonstrating sexual prowess?

Neither. You've obviously missed (or completely ignored, whichever) the point that partners sometimes do things that are of no personal benefit or pleasure, simply because they benefit their OH. I'm not sure how I can make it any simpler.

It does strike me on MN how many men gravitate towards the sex topics though, proportionally, in comparison to the minority of men on the forum in general. Yet on the sex threads there are loads of them.
Wonder why.

Maybe because Mumsnet can often be an echo chamber of women making assumptions and generalisations (usually negative) about men, how we think, and sex? And some of us find this a little frustrating? Also Sex is a topic that equally involves men and women. 50-50. Both genders are required and sex is something I have personal experience of, and therefore feel able to express an opinion about it. I can't say the same about the childbirth or pregnancy forum. I read them, but don't have much to say because shock, horror, I've never been pregnant or given birth, and never will. However they're useful info for when/if my DP and I decide to go for kids.

If you think arguing with people on a forum about sex is somehow erotic or titillating to me, then I'm sorry to disappoint you.

The fact that you describe men as "dogs without bones" pretty much tells me everything I need to know about how you view my gender. I wonder how you'd react if I called women "bitches in heat"?

Not really called for, is it?

Re the menopause. I gave up on my GP and his/their knowledge on the menopause and paid to see a private female consultant who is an expert in the menopause. At that stage I was so dry that nothing was going anywhere near me as I would bleed and then get cystitis. Even with off the shelf creams/lubes. The menopause can be dreadful and is so misunderstood. Perhaps you could pay for your wife to see a private consultant who will be able to spend time with her, go through all of her symptoms ( I had aching finger joints and swollen hands among other issues) and she may be able to prescribe a solution. I feel 100% better now and with more energy than I had 5 years ago. My libido isn’t great but I would need to take testosterone for that and haven’t got to that stage yet.

There's no black and white. I've nothing against a woman who wants to please their bloke but the OP's wife doesn't, and shouldn't be made to.

No one is suggesting she should be made to do anything. If she doesn’t want any intimacy that is her right.

Macaroni46, you nailed it. I had all that in my marriage - no sex for well over 5 years. I tried everything. - a bit like baubles ‘dog with a bone expression’, except I was the wife - women like sex too! So for baubles and anyone who thinks the OP is at fault, who was at fault here - me for wanting sex or my ex not wanting it?

I think Sethis and other guys have made some really great points and it’s great seeing the male perspective.

OP, I can understand your wife not wanting sex due to menopause and it’s symptoms, but I think the lack of affection is a bigger indicator that there’s more to it - unless she doesn’t show affection because you always take that as a sign she might want sex.

As in any relationship, communication is key. You really don’t want to get to the point that you both resent each other. I hope she gets the dryness sorted - I had Atrophic Vaginitis diagnosed and found Vagifem helped. Keep on talking...perhaps offer a massage - scented candles etc and try to do something for her with no strings attached. It’s all give and take. Wishing you all the best.

@Sethis.
First, it's sex, not gender. As you said, it's not specifically related to the social construction of your masculinity, it's about (usually but not always) men wanting to get their end away and the suggestion that women should 'do them a favour' by blowing them off if they don't want PIV. Lovely.
And you don't need to simplify things for me. I'm not thick.
Also, sex doesn't require 'both genders', I think you covered this above where you asked me to consider lesbians 'so I could understand'.
Also, it's not a sex thread. It's relationship thread. There's a difference, you know.
And it is called for, because on a safe forum, women who are pressured by social expectations of them to provide sex for (usually)men are able to take strength from other women reinforcing the fact that's ok, even if their partner is 'horny for them', and struggling terribly with 'urges' and 'frustrations' as though they are unable to control themselves. Men being unable to control themselves is something many men use to coerce women into sex. I don't care how 'shit' a wife OP's wife is, what her obligations are from a male point of view, or how much OP is struggling. She doesn't have to, even in a loving relationship, have to put her feelings aside and satisfy his 'urges', ever.
If you want to explore the nuances of sex in such detail, there's a sex topic where many men hang out. Otherwise, stick to the point.
Presumably @50's you weren't going on all the time about being 'so horny for your partner it was physically uncomfortable. You weren't expecting oral sex as a favour from him because you're in a relationship with him.
I doubt you'd have wanted someone pleasing you when they didn't want to. That's my argument, not that someone wants sex, which is normal. It's the fact that they expect it. Sex isn't a right, and people are free to leave if they're not getting it.
No partner, male or female, should have to pleasure their partner. That's the bottom line. Particularly when medical reasons like menopause are the cause. Would people be saying she should be giving blow jobs if she was postpartum? What about after surgery, or in the case of disability. Anyone that says otherwise endorses abusive relationships.

Men have been programmed to think - and act - like their dick will drop off if they don't get "serviced" regularly.

OP's DW clearly doesn't want intimacy right now. Maybe OP should focus on finding out why that is, rather than trying to reinstate his "right" to physical intimacy. Your relationship could be suffering because she views you as unsupportive / a sex pest / selfish, etc. Sounds about time that DW had her needs listened to, to me.

OP could easily have gone off and found another woman. I am sure a lot of marriages do break down during the peri and menopause.
There are numerous signs and symptoms.

Instead, he is here looking for advice , and getting a lot of flak .
At least he “cares”.

At least he cares
About what? Being serviced by his wife??
Perfect example of the low bar set for men and their sexual needs.
Hes not had an affair yet-what a guy.

am sure a lot of marriages do break down during the peri and menopause
Because sone women have expired in terms of their sexual performance, and men still need seeing to. So they find someone else.
In this life women's value is determined by their ability and preparedness to help their man ejaculate.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't want s sexless marriage either. It's such an important part of intimacy. But there are things to deal with dryness. The issue is dealing with the lack of desire. Personally desire begins in the mind and builds up with anticipation and I wonder whether there is something you could do to help your wife feel sexy and good and therefore interested in considering sex.

It's depressing that the only reason a man would consider if his wife is happy or not is because she's now "withholding" sex, so he has to "fix" it so he can get sex again.

Presumably @50's you weren't going on all the time about being 'so horny for your partner it was physically uncomfortable. You weren't expecting oral sex as a favour from him because you're in a relationship with him.

Well tbh it did get to the point that it became very important, so I did go on about it and yes it was physically uncomfortable - for me anyway! I’d have been happy with anything from him - preferably good and regular shagging, but even oral would have been good Masturbation serves a purpose but there is no intimacy with your partner in that.

Baubles you are making many generalised points and assumptions about the OP as a man. So many of your comments are “men are....”. This is not helpful. The OP is asking for advice in his particular situation. Not all men are the same. He says his wife finds sex painful due to meno symptoms and he is not even getting any affection. He is looking for suggestions. He has stated he is not being a pest.

I stand by what I have already said...it’s all about communication - and doing other things perhaps to show you care.

No @70Baubles
sex and libido are not the only things that go awry in the run up to menopause.
There are emotional , mental , physical , and sexual signs and symptoms that could try any person's relationship , either the male or the female , or whatever goes these days in a relationship.

OK .
WWYD.
My husband went off with another woman because I had an early menopause and could not satisfy him , or was prepared to satisfy him in any way . He says he wrote to Mumsnet for advice . He says he still loved me but he has fallen in love with this other woman now and is leaving me .
What should I do ? What could I have done to make him stay? Could I have done anything differently?
What if I wanted to have sex BUT it was too painful.?
I was frightened that any affection would end up with PIV.

What should I do ? What could I have done to make him stay? Could I have done anything differently?
What if I wanted to have sex BUT it was too painful.?
I was frightened that any affection would end up with PIV.

I would say have you explored all options to help you, and does he actually expect any affection to lead to PIV, or is it the case you don’t believe him or he just has not reassured you enough...ie have you communicated as much as you can before it leading to him finding someone else? Do you still love him? Does he say he still loves you?

This scenario is just what the OP has is trying to avoid. That is why he is asking for advice.

Of course there is always more to any story. We only hear one side of it on here and it can be very easy to jump to conclusions - either because we only have limited facts, or because we always take, say, the female side. Takes 2 to Tango!!