Bad hosts?

[TakeFive1959]

Last weekend, my DH and I stayed for three nights at my SIL's and her DH's house, who live in another country. About a month in advance, we asked her if it would be fine for us to stay, since we wanted to visit them -last time we saw each other was in summer-, to which she said yes.

Let's say that we did not quite feel, well... hospitality, precisely. The day of our arrival -on Friday night, 8pm-ish-, we were supposed to meet at a train station to go together with them to their house (which we had never been to, since they moved a couple of months ago). We let them know beforehand the time we were arriving, we messaged them when our plane landed, and even when our train was on the way to the station. They just did not show up. We called them letting them know that we had arrived, and they said they were still home! They did not just arrive from work, but were there - we don't know what. So instead of waiting all the way for them to arrive -25-30 minutes-, we just compromise to meet them at half the way.

Then, when we arrived at their house (at around late 9 pm), they did not offer us anything to eat or even snack. There was not any dinner or snacks prepared, so we all order take away. They had not had dinner themselves either, waiting for us to have dinner together.

Right after ordering, my SIL says that 'ours' is 'x' pounds so that we pay her the cost of our meal, which we do immediately and do nothing else that night but smile and talk to them. We ended up having dinner at 11pm.

Of course, we had brought with us some gifts for them -things we knew they liked-, and gave them upon our arrival. We were also more than willing -or would have been, if things would have been different- to contribute with the costs of our stay and invite them for some meals and/or buy groceries, but were just not expecting that reaction precisely on the night of our arrival, which was quite shocking tbh.

During the rest of our stay, they provided for breakfasts -consisting of cereals with milk or yoghurt, fruit and coffee or tea-, and an occasional drink -twice- at their house, but nothing else. They did not cook once - which is fine for me-, and all meals were out or takeaways, but we were expected to pay for absolutely every meal apart from breakfast, and they did not invite us even once, not even to a coffee or tea while we were out in the city with them.

In fact, they were so tight that they expected each person the bear the exact cost of what they had ordered, they did not just divide the bill (even when what we all had ordered was pretty similar in cost). This happened with coffee, too.

During all our stay, we cleaned our dishes and what we used for breakfast and/or for the takeaways without being asked for, and we offered our help whenever we could (to clean the dishes, set the table or even prepare a coffee for them at breakfast, since they always woke up later than we did!).

The morning we left, we woke up to be ready to leave the house at the same time they did, since they did not have the day off and had to go to work, and we did not want to be an inconvenience for them.

I would love to say that our stay was lovely, but that attitude left us quite cold. We tried to ignore it the first day, but then it just repeated during all our stay, so we did not bother to invite them for dinner or coffee either, feeling quite annoyed.

Is it just us, or is this really an absolute lack of hospitality? If they had stayed at our house, I know we would have made sure that dinner was ready when they arrived, and would have been waiting for them at the train station upon their arrival (not to mention that we would have invited them to all of the meals at our house, or some of them if dinner or lunch was out, in addition to buying some snacks and/or things for them).

Financially, they currently do better than we do, since SIL has a very good job and my DH is unemployed at the moment, but there is usually not a big difference between us.

What do you think?? Last night I messaged SIL thanking her for 'our stay', and offering them to stay at our house anytime, but did not feel right thanking her for their 'hospitality', since we felt there was NONE.

Am I being over-criticising? Do you believe that they are aware that they were not hospitable? What would you do?

I think the key thing is that you invited yourselves. Sounds like they didn’t want to do all the work that hosting entails, and really why should they if they didn’t invite you?

I once asked if I could stay with a member of my family and wasn’t even given sheets or a duvet cover to sleep on. I took that as a strong sign that having us to stay was definitely too much for them after a hard week. And I was not offended but learnt not to invite myself to stay again!

They sounds very inhospitable but they also sound like things might be too much for them.

Surely it's the guests who should pay for the hosts, to thank them for putting them up, not the other way round?

OP seems very rude and entitled to me.

DH and I live in a very touristy and nice place, and have received visits of family members countless times. We are usually happy to receive family at our house, but even when we have not been so thrilled, we were never rude to them or actually showed!! We showed them around, spent time with them, bought all groceries and always, always invited our guests.

Also, we did not book flights or anything before discussing it with SIL and making sure -or so we though- they were willing to have us, so it was not that way.

To us, if it is family, and since we all live in different places, they are our guests. Maybe they did not see it that way though.

OP, you are not in the wrong here. They were shit hosts, end of.

You sound like you are reviewing a hotel.

These people are your family so I'm not sure why you were expecting them to wait on you hand and foot.

Maybe book a hotel next time.

You felt you wasn’t ‘looked after’ enough, I don’t think being a house guest is right for you.

Maybe they've just had some awful news and were knocked a bit sideways by it; or maybe they just forgot you were coming.

Or they were unwilling hosts and the OP was a shit guest. She said she was willing to get groceries/coffees/dinner etc, but she didn't did she.

There's more to this ... and without knowing what the background is and what exactly happened it is hard to tell what was going on ...

Did you suggest visiting and was the response cool or were they super enthusiastic? (Why did you go it they weren't super enthusiastic?) Did you even notice?

Definitely something weird in the arranging to collect you and not turning up. Fails all hospitality standards.

Why did you turn up at 9pm expecting a meal? Cup of tea, glass of wine ... sure. Dinner ... nope. (No idea why they hadn't eaten ... I'd presume someone arriving that late would have, though I'd happily make them a sandwich is they hadn't).

How was the dynamic throughout the visit if you ignore the food costs issue? Did you get on well? Chat, have a laugh, enjoy each other's company? If so, then maybe you just have different expectations about paying for food.

When you talk about them "inviting" you I'm taking it you mean "picking up the tab" (I think the French meaning of "invite") and not "invite" in the sense of asking you to join them for a meal? It cuts both ways. Did you treat them? You were being put up in their house at your instigation. I'd expect you to also have considered it appropriate to treat them as a thank you.

Do you have any kind of track record in letting others pick up the bill, or run around after you? Could they have been making a point about your past behaviour?

Their behaviour was definitely odd. So I'm wondering at why.

I know that if my sister or brother (who both live abroad) suggested coming to stay with me I'd be delighted. Because I like to spend time with them and it is rare and I'd appreciate the cost and time involved in coming. I'd happily feed either or both of them and put them up. But I know both of them would also take us out to dinner during the stay.

Have you stayed with them before? Have they stayed with you? Have both of you stayed with ILs? How did it turn out? Everything smells of history in how this played out.

I'm not sure why you were expecting them to wait on you hand and foot.

You'd be amazed, people do expect exactly this.

OP is basically complaining that they had to pay for their own food. She expected her hosts to pay for most /all of their food as well as putting them up. Apparently free accommodation, breakfasts and drinks is not enough!

If someone had moved and not given me their new address, I might wonder if that was deliberate rather than inviting myself

There are some incredibly parsimonious elements on here- the type who feel that making someone a cup of tea is a liberty and should be celebrated with a fanfare should they rise to the occasion.

Actually it has been my experience that the wealthier the person the tighter they are to others. Small sample admittedly but that has been a common thread.

Something that stands out to my is you didn't know your sil address. How close are your dh and sil?

The train station thing is a bit odd but maybe they did not know exactly what time you were due in. Did you actually say to them out train id arriving in station x at 7.30pm?

In all honesty, it sounds like your sil and her dh did not want to host you but did not want to say no or else assumed you wanted to visit the area and were going to be out and about all day and that you would eating out. Sounds like basically they saw the arrangement as in an unpaid b&b.

Why did you ask to stay with them and not invite them to stay with you?

If someone had moved and not given me their new address, I might wonder if that was deliberate rather than inviting myself

This

So if you had guests you would pay for all their food for three days?

MN at its best

Yes AliceScarlett, When I have guests (not if), I do pay for their food for the entire stay. I also don't pay for their drinks, and I don't charge them for their room and shower.

In normal families, people visit each other, it's a normal thing to do, and the host provides food. In the real world, friends come and visit, friends call other friends asking for favour - room and board for their student child for example.
It's only on MN that people seem to resent guests, cannot do anything for free, and feel like being a normal human being is being taken advantages of .

In the real world, anyone normal would find it very strange if someone turns up at 9pm having had diner already! Yes, normal people would have planned to have dinner together, even a buffet if you are unsure of the time.

I honestly feel like I am on another planet sometimes!

@3timeslucky the one suggesting visiting was DH, so I personally don't know how the response was, but he said SIL was very pleased with our visit, and in fact she checked with us the whole week in advance regarding our landing time, route, etc.

We were expecting a meal at 9pm because they had not had dinner themselves, waiting for us to have dinner together upon our arrival. Therefore we expected it to be at least ready, considering we were arriving quite late... the 'welcome' really froze us, with no welcome at the train station (as supposedly arranged, and they still being at home), no meal upon our arrival, dinner at 11pm, and asking us to pay for that first dinner after all of that... and that is why we did not invite them afterwards to dinner or else, however we did bring some pricey gifts for them which we knew they like and cannot usually find in their country.

As I said before, of course I did not expect them to pay for all our food and drinks, but that lack of 'welcoming' left us quite cold, since we sure were expecting them to cook for dinner, or have something prepared, or at least invite us for the take away the first night. We sure would have had it been the other way around, and also the ILs and everyone else in my family!

The dynamic with SIL was lovely, however with SIL's DH was a bit annoying... seemed like he did not enjoy anything that we had planned to do - which we had discussed beforehand with them upon their suggestions.

When we meet with others we usually split the bill by equals or switch in inviting - one time we invite, the next they invite. We are always pleased to invite people at home for dinner or else, too, and do it fairly often.

SIL and her DH have not stayed with us yet, but we both have stayed with ILs and it has been waaaay different than this. However, we expect them to visit us in the future because they do love the place we live in and would love to come for holidays as they have said many times, and we would be happy for them to do so...

We live in the USA.

For our first two years here we had 10 sets of visitors each year.

All staying for two weeks.

I was shocked to discover the vast majority expected waited on hand and foot from morning till night, leaving mess behind them every day, not offering any contribution to groceries or cooking.

The odd set even seemed to expect me to look after their kids while they lay by the pool.

Some guests, including close family and good friends honestly treated us like a free hotel for a fortnight.

It was quite galling to discover good friends who didn’t offer to do the dishes occasionally.

Most guests didn’t even offer to babysit for us for an evening.

Eventually your well of hospitality just runs dry.

I’m much stricter now about who comes to stay, for how long and regarding the house rules.

I’m surprised you didn’t offer to pay for the takeaway the first night to be honest.

Personally I would have cooked for you the second night but that doesn’t mean you were entitled to it and I’m shocked that you think they should have bought your takeaways.

It’s possible that:

They didn’t want you to come. You said they’ve just moved, maybe they weren’t really ready for guests.

You’ve been poor guests in the past

You are delightful guests but they are fed up hosting because of other people’s behaviour.

Regardless I think your attitude to their hospitality is pretty rude. You stayed with them for free, so they did provide you with hospitality.

I get you totally. When I go home to my parents to visit them, they have in the last year or so started to have the fridge completely empty, no offer of anything apart from a cup of tea etc. When they would come to my house I would feel like it was Christmas, I would be out buying snacks , party food etc, as I was happy for them to be calling and don't see them that often. Even my dh commented on it and I feel they are purposely doing it, no breakfast materials, when they used to have that kind of stuff before. I stopped ordering takeawy as was getting sick of paying for the whole family. It really sets a cold mood when people are mean like that , to be honest I think my mother does it because she thinks we are loaded, but she is actually putting me off treating her by acting like this. How hard is it to have a loaf of bread and a few eggs in when your daughter and her family call to see you.

I think your right not to thank them for hospitality, and even kind of you to thank them at all

I can’t believe a) how rude SIL and her husband were and b) that some people are defending this!

If my DS or DB say they’re coming to stay, I’m delighted and slay the fatted calf for them. If my distant cousin rocks up from Australia and says ‘hi’, I will cook for them and be (very mildly) offended they didn’t plan to stay with me.
I may well have to give visitors a key and explain that I’m busy for a bit so they have to entertain themselves, but I would never expect them to pay for their own food.
The closest to an exception was when my half-cousin from the US stayed with us for 3 weeks while job-hunting. He was free to store his own food in the fridge if he didn’t feel like joining our chaotic family meals.
And I’m not a particularly good host by my lights.

I get you totally. When I go home to my parents to visit them, they have in the last year or so started to have the fridge completely empty, no offer of anything apart from a cup of tea etc.

Fairy you need to start going to a hotel.

The moment you asked if you could visit you were being unreasonable. What is it about your company which makes it worth their while feeding, waiting on and entertaining you?

Sorry OP, YWBU. You took your relatives for granted and they weren’t happy.

Only on MN are you a spoiled princess for expecting someone to meet you at a station after you've travelled to meet them and... they offered to meet you.

OP, YANBU.

Family and friends should be nice and make an effort. The nickle and diming is just embarassing - For whatever reason (& it could be anything) they clearly had their nose out of joint about the trip and it showed in their behaviour.

Your husband should probably have a conversation with his sister, and clear the air/find out whats going on.
Personally, I would have made a point of paying for everything once they started this weirdness just to prove a point.
I would NOT be going back to visit them, but would invite them or meet them out.

I always understood standard "visiting etiquette" is host provides a warm welcome, and food/drinks within the home. Guests brings niace gifts and when they go out for dinner the guests insist on paying for everyone as a "treat".
Guests try not to be a nuisance and keep their stuff tidy / offer to help out and maybe strip the bed...
This is how literally everyone I know hosts...

I have never in my life had a guest buy food or give me money and have never offered to do so when staying as a guest.

What a completely bizarre thread. When I have guests I always cook for them and no I don't expect a contribution to their food either (although they often offer/bring drinks etc). That doesn't equate to being expected to be waited on!!!

MN is so odd.