To exclude one child (out of 21)? Christmas cards at nursery

[QwertyLou]

To be clear, I don’t want to leave this little lad out (nor does DS - they’re good mates) but we have to, due to his parents’ request.

So it’s more of a “how do I handle this?”

I wasn’t going to worry about Christmas cards this year (we did them last year - one for each child in his room).

But today I ended up cutting up cardboard, setting up paints, stamps etc and helped him make cards... He’s been home sick - quite lethargic, but well enough to need occupying.

We now have 21 Christmas cards, lovingly handcrafted and ready to go!

Only now do I remember about this little lad. And wish I thought of something else to keep DS occupied!

Last year, DS loved handing out the cards and the kids were excited to get them. After they all ran off, one of the Mums said “Sorry - we don’t celebrate Christmas” and handed her son’s card back to me (very politely and privately).

I think I said “Oh sorry!” or something inane, and tucked the card into my handbag. It was slightly awkward but all very polite, I soon forgot all about it.

Anyway - a year later, I’ve used it as a teaching moment and explained to my son about different religions and customs.

(my Mum did the same for me, I’d chosen the “Hail Mary” and she said matter-of-factly “oh some of the girls are Protestant and they don’t pray to Mary, choose another prayer!”

My son is fine with the religion discussion but says “Billy” “will be sad if I give a card to everyone but not to him!”

If Billy was a confident, bolshie little boy it would be easier. But he seems a very sensitive little soul. He was overjoyed to be invited to my son’s birthday party because he doesn’t tend to get invited to things often.

I once watched a little girl handing out invites and Billy was beaming, waiting for his. And when he didn’t get one his face... just crumpled and his eyes filled with tears. I just wanted to pick him up and give him the biggest cuddle!

TL;DR - how should my son hand out 20 cards without being mean to the one child he can not give one to?

Are there any non-Christmas celebrators who would be comfortable saying what you would want done?

PS. If I’d remembered earlier, I would have got him to make cards for people outside nursery.

PPS. They don’t have book bags.

some of these could be said to apply to all religions, but when you take them all together it sounds pretty much like a cult to me

A big difference between JWs and mainstream Christians is that Christians are encouraged to read the Bible for themselves and on its own. JWs are not, they're only allowed to read the Bible alongside the Watchtower.

This is because if they did read the Bible on its own, they would find that the JWs' teaching is actually contrary to its overall message. Particularly in the JWs' insistence that Jesus is not the Son of God.

@Lizzie48 - I didn't realise they taught Jesus wasn't the son of God. I didn't think there was anything left to surprise me but wow that has.

@AnnieOH1

They've mistranslated the text in John 1:1. The Greek puts it that in the beginning '...The Word (Jesus) was with God and the Word was God.' The JWs' Bible has it that 'The Word was a god.'

So, as well as being controlling and, yes, in my opinion, cult-like, they're also heretical, which a lot of people don't realise.

Apart from this, I think that only in a cult would parents willingly let their child die rather than have a blood transfusion.

@lizzie48 - I've seen that bit before about John 1:1 but I'm not clear that is them denying Christ being the firstborn son or words to that effect. So isn't that simply them being non-trinitarian rather than denying Christ as the son of God?

Maybe. I think what they're doing is acknowledging the humanity of Christ but rejecting the Deity. Christianity holds both his humanity and Deity in balance. It's actually a heresy that goes right back to the second century so not invented by the JWs.

I believe the JWs also deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus.

Apologies to others reading this thread for this theological discussion! But I think it's important to establish that JWs are a heretical sect.

@lizzie48 - I'm going to have to do some more reading regarding their position about the Son, down the rabbit hole I go... But yes you're absolutely right about them denying the bodily resurrection of Christ.

JWs are not, they're only allowed to read the Bible alongside the Watchtower.

They also have their own version of the Bible, as do many Christians, but the JW one is translated from English (King James version) to English rather than from older scripture.

@Sassh I'm sorry but I don't believe you're quite right there. Various documents were used by non-scholars to create the NWT. It bears little if any relation to the KJV, the majority comes from the Septuagint iirc.

They do believe Jesus is son of God, Much research goes into getting true meaning of scripture, Such as importance of Gods name, what happens when we die, why the good news has to be preached to all nations, the resurrection hope, Armageddon

AnnieOH1

JWs used to use the KJB. The NWT developed i the 1950s was 'translated' by a group of men who had no university degrees, no training in Biblical scholarship or qualifications in interpretation and or the ability to read ancient Greek, Hebrew and Latin.

It is much more reasonable to believe they 'translated' the KJV.

The Septuagint, correct me if I'm wrong, is the old testament.

Yes, the Septuagint is the Old Testament, but the Greek version not Hebrew. It has key differences from the original Hebrew, and it includes the Apocrypha unlike the Hebrew Torah, which doesn't accord those books canonical status.

Catholics view the Apocrypha as Scripture, whereas the Protestant denominations don't.

@Sassh - not sure, allegedly the master text used for translating the Old Testament into English was Kittel's Biblia Hebraica. The Hebrew texts, Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia and Biblia Hebraica Quinta, were used for preparing the latest version of this translation. Other works consulted in preparing the translation include Aramaic Targums, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Samaritan Torah, the Greek Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate, the Masoretic Text, the Cairo Codex, the Aleppo Codex, Christian David Ginsburg's Hebrew Text, and the Leningrad Codex. Certainly for the Dead Sea Scrolls they've cherry picked one specific Isaiah text where the scrolls contain multiple versions, to back up their claims but ignore the wider scrolls themselves.

@Lizzie48 - there are some protestant denominations that use the apocrypha though, as well as the orthodox churches too (Greek, Ethiopian etc. I've never understood clearly why the NWT didn't use the wider canons, beyond just that they've used the standard protestant canon in antiquity as it were.

As for the idea of Jehovah being the name of God, from what I've seen recently of the Watchtower even they concede it is an anglicisation of the tetragrammaton but that is what they use none the less. Completely ignoring in my opinion, both in word and deed, the need to take Christ's name upon them. (Be it the name of their faith or the way they practice "memorial").

@AnnieOH1

True, the Anglo-Catholic wing of the C of E uses the Apocrypha, though not the Evangelical wing. (I went to a high Anglican school and that was the case there.) But then, they're Catholic in every way apart from with regard to the Pope. You could almost say that in other ways they're more Catholic than the Catholics.

The Orthodox Church is different altogether, it separated from the Western church in the Middle Ages, so it's traditions are completely separate. I don't know anything about the Ethiopian Church traditions.

Well that was an interesting theological discussion I just caught up on, albeit a bit over my head in parts... was there a TL; DR ?

I hate parents like this. I experienced this as a child to some extent and it's awful. That child will feel like shit.

@zeddybrek

My sister experienced it too (though a different scenario) and she felt like shit, it was horrible. Maybe you had to go through it, or be close to someone who did, to understand. Thank you.

Well as a JW, my youngest Ds has received lots of cards this week. He has enjoyed opening them all, then I just recycle them. Some people have asked if I would be offended to receive one, I always say no as I understand that they would feel bad to leave someone out. I wouldn't return a card personally.
I was raised JW and received cards sometimes, it really wasn't an issue. If people change it to 'happy winter' or something similar I'd think it very sweet and considerate.
There's quite a lot of misinformation in some of the posts on here, but it seems like some have maybe had some odd experiences that have been nothing like I have ever encountered. We are all quite normal really!!

Thank you @Squiz81 your family sounds lovely.

I'm sorry if this thread felt unfriendly to you, I didn't frame my OP very well. I'm so glad you shared this

There are degrees in all religions. For example, the Catholic church does not recognise same sex marriage. Yet many people I know (including myself) totally love and accept gay people.

oops, bold fail, not sure why

What a long and pointless thread. They do not celebrate Christmas and do not want a card. They have been quite explicit about this. Don' t give them a card - you're attitude seems rather intolerant and selfish. No?

Each to their own, but to me selfish would be to give my son 20 cards and leave his teachers to handle any upset. Intolerant would be to give him 21 cards and pretend I forgot. No?

With respect, I think some may have only skimmed my OP and misunderstood the question (easy to do) It was a “How to.”

My son will be handing out 20 cards not 21 – how best to do this? [only a rhetorical question – has been resolved]

Answers:

• Ask teachers to hand cards out instead of children.
• Place cards in a central place for parents to collect.
• Have a Post Box to avoid children handing cards out directly.
• Hand out only eight cards so it is no longer a case of one child “missing out.”
• Convert cards into invites – 21 kids get an invite, no one misses out, perhaps 4 (at most) will accept.
• [Find something religion/culture appropriate to give to the child in question instead.]

Some posts [not directed at PP above] seemed quite dismissive of the boys, which surprised me. I guess some people have never experienced (first or second hand) the pain of being excluded as a child.

I have never been unemployed. But if I read an OP by a financially struggling parent I do not post “FFS OP get a job already – why the dramaz?? What a pointless thread OP!!” Different people need support with different things.

I know my written English isn’t perfect, and can read as “formally correct but tonally weird.” I also know I have major social anxiety and post about idiotic things that more confident mums would take in their stride every day! I’m sorry if these have grated on people’s nerves.

Having said all that. If a thread is boring your tits off or inducing manic thread rage – AIBU to suggest that you DNRTFT ?

Well I've enjoyed the thread and the rabbit holes it has sent me down so thank you for everyone that has made it long! :)

Thanks for coming back QwertyLou

I think it's been interesting reading too. I find the idea of somone posting on a thread to say the thread is long and pointless is ironic to say the least

I'm glad you have had some useful suggestions.

I doubt they're Plymouth Brethern if he's been to your house. Ime it would be unlikely he'd be allowed to come if they were PB. We have quite a few near here and my mum used to teach at a PB school. They generally go to their own schools so wouldn't be in a standard nursery. They're not even allowed to live in a semi detached house as they could be seen to be living under the same roof as a non PB.

I've enjoyed this thread, too, @AnnieOH1 it was an unexpected opportunity to discuss theology, and with very few goady posts as well, which is very unusual on Mumsnet.

Thank you @Lizzie48 @AnnieOH1 @Molakai

@NicoAndTheNiners the PB sound quite exclusionary - I've learned a lot on this thread. Have now confirmed that this particular family are Witnesses.

Thank you to all who responded, your insightful and thoughtful comments really helped, even the "you're overthinking again!!" ones (with which I do not disagree).

This is what my son gave instead of a card - both boys were thrilled so I'm really happy.

(Also my comment up-thread about some misinterpreting the question applied solely to the few people who implied that I wanted to force a Christmas card upon this boy with evangelical zeal. Which I did not.)

Great resolution OP