To exclude one child (out of 21)? Christmas cards at nursery

[QwertyLou]

To be clear, I don’t want to leave this little lad out (nor does DS - they’re good mates) but we have to, due to his parents’ request.

So it’s more of a “how do I handle this?”

I wasn’t going to worry about Christmas cards this year (we did them last year - one for each child in his room).

But today I ended up cutting up cardboard, setting up paints, stamps etc and helped him make cards... He’s been home sick - quite lethargic, but well enough to need occupying.

We now have 21 Christmas cards, lovingly handcrafted and ready to go!

Only now do I remember about this little lad. And wish I thought of something else to keep DS occupied!

Last year, DS loved handing out the cards and the kids were excited to get them. After they all ran off, one of the Mums said “Sorry - we don’t celebrate Christmas” and handed her son’s card back to me (very politely and privately).

I think I said “Oh sorry!” or something inane, and tucked the card into my handbag. It was slightly awkward but all very polite, I soon forgot all about it.

Anyway - a year later, I’ve used it as a teaching moment and explained to my son about different religions and customs.

(my Mum did the same for me, I’d chosen the “Hail Mary” and she said matter-of-factly “oh some of the girls are Protestant and they don’t pray to Mary, choose another prayer!”

My son is fine with the religion discussion but says “Billy” “will be sad if I give a card to everyone but not to him!”

If Billy was a confident, bolshie little boy it would be easier. But he seems a very sensitive little soul. He was overjoyed to be invited to my son’s birthday party because he doesn’t tend to get invited to things often.

I once watched a little girl handing out invites and Billy was beaming, waiting for his. And when he didn’t get one his face... just crumpled and his eyes filled with tears. I just wanted to pick him up and give him the biggest cuddle!

TL;DR - how should my son hand out 20 cards without being mean to the one child he can not give one to?

Are there any non-Christmas celebrators who would be comfortable saying what you would want done?

PS. If I’d remembered earlier, I would have got him to make cards for people outside nursery.

PPS. They don’t have book bags.

My muslim neighbours give all the neighbours a Christmas card and home made mince pies. I also have Hindu that celebrate Christmas as a British cultural thing. I think Billy's mum is a self righteous twat, and if she felt so strongly she should have disposed of it quietly. Definitely don't exclude Billy because of her cult like mentality. I'm assuming they are JW? What they do or don't do at home is up to them but if she's choosing to send her children to nurseries and schools in the community she can deal with excluding her child herself and not push the issue on to others. Or homeschool them if she feels so strongly.

He JWs' way of keeping themselves separate from contamination by the world is very dangerous, as it has led to abuse not being discovered for years. Remember the case of Eunice Spry, the foster carer who abused children in her care for 20 years? I'm not suggesting that the community knew about it and turned a blind eye, but the suspicion of outsiders made it very difficult for the authorities to find out what was going on.

JWS love their children as much as anyone else

Genuinely not being goady but trying to understand. Wouldn't a JW let their child die instead if having a blood transfusion? That's my understanding and under no circumstances would I consider that loving their child as much as anyone else.

Happy to be proven wrong.

I hate parents like this. I experienced this as a child to some extent and it's awful. That child will feel like shit. Do a card but like others said, a happy new year or thanks for being my friend card. That kids parent isn't thinking about inclusion and making her child feel comfortable. Thank you for being so considerate OP.

And the Mum has specifically requested no cards and (quite rudely IMO) handed it back last year then I wouldn’t give him any sort of card.

I wonder why the Mum was so rude? There’s no reason at all to not accept a card from someone’s celebrating any occasion or festival. You say thank you and politely accept, even if it’s not not something you celebrate. A lady at work gave out Diwali sweets and beautiful cards and we all loved them and thanked her. To have refused as we don’t celebrate wouldn’t have been very kind or polite at all!

There is a difference between faiths that do not celebrate Christmas but are happy to join in other people's celebrations, like most Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus and so on and those who are actively anti Christmas, like Jehovah's Witnesses and Brethren. They are not permitted to celebrate and would be going against their faith if they did, even out of politeness.

You are respecting their parents' wishes and it is an opportunity for your child to begin to understand that there are those with different views that you can be reasonable about. I am more for wishing those of other faiths a happy (name of celebration) than denying celebrations because not all are Christian, but realise others do not share my opinion.

@AnnieOH1 thanks for saying about LDS!! We certainly do celebrate Christmas... it's in the name 🙈🙈

@deaddoorpost - I think sometimes people convolute LDS with the FLDS prairie dress wearers and further with the Amish etc. So any restrictions they've read about one group (like no dancing!) are then ascribed to the others. :)

As I've said before God wishes us to keep away from all pagan ways , if you look into history you will find answers for yourselves, there's only one truth, one way ,were we created or not if so by who? Why is world such a mess? Do you think your children are not going to have to face the ongoing breakdown of this planet, just look at news, look at what mankind has done, do you want to bring up your little one and end up waveng them off in a war that was nothing to do with them? To be in a religion that tells lies? Our future is bleak for our children, our world is being misled by a force you cannot imagine how crafty it is, Our creator asks for us to really search for him, to understand why things have gone so wrong, and trust him, he promises a world ,this world without the tears and pains Revelation 21. Verse 3 and 4, , no more death, loved ones ressurected , brought to life renewed, (Jesus done this as proof when he raised Lazarus and many others, ) God promises an earth restored, a renewed closeness with the animals, no war , no disability, no poor, all nations as one, no racism, no poor refugees struggling with their children to find a safe place where there is no hate, do you consider that such an awfull prospect that we want for our children? Have you a better alternative ????...

Why is world such a mess?

I'm guessing JWs don't use fossil fuels, single use plastic or eat animal products.

My DD is very close with a child inner class who is a JW.

She can't give that child any type of card/gift. Not even for being her friend.

There's a tonne of "pagan" things that aren't condemned by the Watchtower though. Notwithstanding that they deny the literal resurrection of Christ... Or a slew of other things in direct opposition to actual Bible teachings.

The world is a mess because of people. But I'd still rather live now than 100 years ago.

God promises an earth restored, a renewed closeness with the animals, no war , no disability, no poor, all nations as one, no racism, no poor refugees struggling with their children to find a safe place where there is no hate

Ok. Is there a reason he’s not done it so far?

@Schmoobarb agree, god seriously needs to hurry up, everything's going to shit

@UnknownStuntman yeah, they don't do blood transfusions.

@schmoobarb I literally was about to say the same thing.

Could someone explain this to me...

JW’s won’t accept gifts or cards or even acknowledge other faith’s celebrations or festivals. To the point of handing back a gift or card. Yet they knock on random strangers doors and try and convert people to their beliefs. Is that a little two faced?

"Yet they knock on random strangers doors and try and convert people to their beliefs. Is that a little two faced?"
Not even remotely. If you believe sincerely that you hold the truth that will save the world in your hands, how could you do anything else?

Molly - So in your words

" God promises an earth restored, a renewed closeness with the animals, no war , no disability, no poor, all nations as one, no racism, no poor refugees struggling with their children to find a safe place where there is no hate"

so what happens to all the others after the 144,000 are 'saved'

this is found on a simple goggle search :
Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

The last time jw's knocked on my door they got told to fuck right off! my mother had just passed away and i was not in the mood to be polite! Funnily enough they have never been back!!

Very mean she handed the card back. We don't celebrate Christmas, but when handed a card will happily accept, and we give teachers Christmas presents as they do celebrate it. Also I do use it as a teaching moment for my son, about lots of religion and how everyone can believe something different.

@HestiaParthenos there are some that believe that JW are a cult but they do not, as far as I know meet the criteria to be labelled as such either here or in the USA. I agree that the disfellowshipping would be the biggest argument for it being named as a cult though.
You seem a little too worried about a child's health and happiness if you think denial of a birthday or Christmas card is abusive and cruel. I have friends that are JW. They came to stay recently and my friend and I have been comparing our respective faiths and her girls had relaxed around my dd and I (I can see it must be horrible to be a JW child to constantly be braced to defend your faith and your family from accusations such as yours) my dd with all the gusto of an 8 year old asked every question she could think of about not having Xmas or birthdays and while she was glad that in our faith we do celebrate those things, she did end her summing up of their discussion by saying "Thing is Mummy, I like those things because I've always had them since I was born. They haven't"
Out of the mouths of babes! My friends girls have presents on 'present day' and also as a family celebrate their personal family unit on a day that is special to them. In a low key way, but still showing their children that they have intrinsic value just for being themselves which after all, is all birthdays do. If you look at what happens when birthdays are mentioned in the bible you can kind of see where this teaching of the JW faith comes from.
I spoke to the girls myself and both said they were proud of their faith, couldn't imagine not raising their own children in it and that they had no problem with being 'deprived' of other things. I always remember as a kid feeling so sorry for Jewish kids because they didn't have Father Christmas and only got 8 gifts in total. I don't think any of those children wanted or needed my sympathy.

my mothers friend died from having g blood, imagine how bad a witness would feel if they accepted blood and that happened ?

Total rubbish. Someone may have died after having a blood transfusion but not because of it unless it was the wrong blood group.

Before a baby is born it relies on its mother's blood, so all pregnant women transfuse their own child.

Why is world such a mess? Do you think your children are not going to have to face the ongoing breakdown of this planet, just look at news, look at what mankind has done, do you want to bring up your little one and end up waveng them off in a war that was nothing to do with them?

Have an actual look at the world. World wide slavery is illegal (yes it still happens but it is not seen as moral any more), modern medicine, vaccinations, central heating, paved roads no small pox. NO it's not perfect, but it's certainly not as bad as it once was.

Perhaps if JW's governing body promoted education instead of discouraging it you might be more aware of the world.

Why does a JW who has been raped have to confront his or her rapist? A female victim of abuse who has no female she can turn to because all elders are male?

What about the 2 witness rule? To get away with abusing a child all a JW has to do is not abuse in front of an audience.

What about the beaten wife who is told to be a better wife so her husband will stop beating her? And if she does leave him, then she will be shunned by her friends and family.

What about the paperwork that proves child abuse is a huge problem in the JW faith but isn't reported to authorities?

www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/media-releases/report-jehovahs-witness-organisations-released

Believe it or not I have no problem with JWs themselves, but with the organisation and its policies.

There are some that believe that JW are a cult but they do not, as far as I know meet the criteria to be labelled as such either here or in the USA

I'm not so sure; I've been doing some reading around this, and it's suggested that the characteristics of a cult include:

Excessive zealotry
Insistence that only ^they" have "the truth"
Discouragement of doubt or disagreement by use of shame and guilt
Denunciation of the insufficiently committed
Claiming special, exalted status for members
Adoption of an "us and them" mentality
Writing of own scriptures and banning members from reading others
Preoccupation in recruiting new members
Exclusion of others in a social context

To be fair, some of these could be said to apply to all religions, but when you take them all together it sounds pretty much like a cult to me