To not care whether people say sex or gender.

[TeeJay1970]

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

YANBU. But it’s rather trendy to berate an OP for getting the terms mixed up.

I can almost feel them scrambling at their keyboards, hearts racing, trying to get the first comment in to correct an OP and give a lecture

YANBU. But it’s rather trendy to berate an OP for getting the terms mixed up.

I can almost feel them scrambling at their keyboards, hearts racing, trying to get the first comment in to correct an OP and give a lecture grin

Yeah, who cares if teenage girls have to get undressed in front of males because sex and gender are like 'totally interchangeable and essentially mean the same thing'?

Avegemitesandwich
That is not what I said

You sound like you care OP

I care & admit it - Sex is fixed & unchangeable - in Humans there are 2.

Gender is a social construct and means whatever people decide it means that week.

HTH

Yeah, who cares if teenage girls have to get undressed in front of males because sex and gender are like 'totally interchangeable and essentially mean the same thing'?

But what if, by insisting that gender and sex are the same thing we could make a stronger impact on keeping single sex spaces? What if we insist that gender and sex are the same and are actually immovable? Wouldn't that help stop the confusion.

Because the idea of gender divorced from sex makes no sense to me and I haven't heard a different explanation of what gender is yet, so I bet I'm not the only one.

I don’t even know what the word gender means at this point! So, if there was a form to be completed and it wanted to know whether you are male or female, should it ask your gender or your sex? I literally don’t know and wouldn’t care either way personally.

That is not what I said

You were implying that people only care about getting 'gender' and 'sex' correct, simply so that they can berate someone online for mixing them up. I was pointing out that that is not the reason people think that the distinction is important.

But what if, by insisting that gender and sex are the same thing we could make a stronger impact on keeping single sex spaces? What if we insist that gender and sex are the same and are actually immovable? Wouldn't that help stop the confusion.

To be honest, like other posters, I don't even really know what 'gender' means, it's just bullshit to me. There is no need for gender.

There are two sexes. Everything else is just personality.

Fluffiest 100% this.

Because the idea of gender divorced from sex makes no sense to me and I haven't heard a different explanation of what gender is yet, so I bet I'm not the only one.

Gender does seem to be sex based sterotypes - which aren't usually considered a good thing and shift across cultures and time.

So if you are a tomboy, should you indentify as male? As a child I loved playing football with the boys, and climbing trees, hated dolls, dresses etc. This is where it all baffles me a bit.
I still see/saw myself as a female!

Yabu and you know it

Sex and gender are different.
Everyone has a sex, not everyone claims a gender identity.
Peoples' gender identity can be different to their sex.
It's not really that hard to understand, the fact that you couldn't give a stuff about other peoples opinions & values says a lot about you.

How would you define gender willow2017?

The dictionary definition.

But tbh gender is meaningless now. Anyone can *identify' as anything today and something else tomorrow.

Or Magnificent nailed it.

I also was a 'tomboy' but it didnt make my parents think i really waa one. These days the slightest whiff of a child liking something stereotyped as the opposite sex and they, schools, etc are rushing them into counselling for 'gender transitioning'. Its bloody scarey that kids just cant be kids anymore.

So if you are a tomboy, should you indentify as male?

There does apparently appear to be some pressure to do so.

The law allows currently for sex based exceptions - usually more talked about in relation to women's services - but there been many back room pushes to organisations/councils to get this changed to gender.

Then you have to allow individuals who feel their gender is different to their sex access.

Gender does seem to be sex based sterotypes - which aren't usually considered a good thing and shift across cultures and time

But does it have to be? Could gender just be an informal way of describing sex? Same way as tummy means stomach, or man means male?

Can we keep an informal language that relates to the sexes without having to prescribe to stereotypes.

So yes, tomboys are still women, just as they are still female.

Lots of people use 'gender' interchangeably with 'sex' (probably because they prefer to avoid the word 'sex' because it's embarrassing ). Lots of other people seem to believe that gender is a kind of male or female soul or identity, or some such nonsense. Gender in the latter sense is simply a bundle of stereotypes, which should be got rid of altogether, leaving only factual, biological sex as a determiner of male and female.

Could gender just be an informal way of describing sex? Same way as tummy means stomach, or man means male?
Currently changing from sex to gender means making things mixed sex.

Girl Guides moved from single sex to single gender - so now biological boys who think they are girls, transgirls, can be put in tents and share showers with my teenage girl.

These transgirls may still be sexually attracted to girls and may label themselves lesbians.

If I or my DD complain we are bigots and apparently there are foreseeable problems with this set up at all.

I think most people in RL use sex and gender interchangeably - right up until they realise the problems this is currently causing.

I think most people in RL use sex and gender interchangeably - right up until they realise the problems this is currently causing.

You see, I think the problem is that the words aren't being used interchangeably. I think redefining gender to some ethereal thing divorced from biology is causing these issues not solving them. If gender and sex meant the same then girl guides couldn't pull this shit.

There are two sexes. Everything else is just personality.

^^This.

Sex refers to biological differences (XX and XY), while gender more often refers to cultural and social differences and sometimes encompasses a broader range of identities than the binary of male and female. Fluffiest I HTH with the whole defining of gender.

Humans only have 2 sexes - Man (XY - adult human male) and Woman (XX - adult human female). Your sex cannot be changed, you can't change your genetic makeup, not by taking a pill, cutting a body part off or having one put on, or because you feel a certain way. Your gender can be whatever the hell you want it to be and I couldn't care less how you identify your gender.
I do care however when the terms SEX and GENDER are used interchangeably to change single-sex spaces into single-gender spaces and will therefore allow male bodied people into women's only spaces. Language is important, these words are not interchangeable and it matters how we use them.

As a feminist I want to see the end of gender. It does no one any good, is outdated and just because the word is being used in a certain context does not make it right in the same way as saying something is 'very unique', it isn't, it can't be.

I think redefining gender to some ethereal thing divorced from biology is causing these issues not solving them. If gender and sex meant the same then girl guides couldn't pull this shit.

I think every day people do think sex/gender =male/female - it wouldn't really register on forms for the bulk population as they know what is meant.

We have in law currently sex based exceptions allowing services to be single sex and gender recognition act - which allows gender changes.

I think many organisations have had advice that sex and gender mean the same so there no real problems using either word - then there are problems.

@KlutzyDraconequus

You don't make much sense and seem a little angry. Why's that? Not had any gender for a while?

It's cute that you've searched through my posts on other threads. I thought that was frowned upon. Knickers in a twist? Getting hysterical from behind your keyboard?

Head teachers are usually referred to as part of the SMT - senior management team. Yes, senior management.

"You make little of bullying."

No. I think teenage girls are frequently unpleasant to each other. Par for the course means normal or common. It makes no reference to my opinion as to whether it's acceptable.

"Think people accepting their bodies is killing people."

Yes. Fat people should accept their laziness as simply 'one of those things'. They should change.

"Don't believe in accuracy in science and language."

We need varying levels of accuracy depending on the situation.

"And have disdain for children and their parents who are proud of them?"

Parents are frequently 'proud' of their children. It's usually baseless when a comment about 'top reader in the class' or similar. Have they been shown PM assessments for the cohort? Unlikely.

"Perfect qualifications for a teacher.. absolutely perfect.."

As someone who thinks language is important, surely you'd see that the things you addressed are not qualifications.

Qualifications, should you be interested:

BSc, BSc, MSc, NPQH

@Avegemitesandwich

"Yeah, who cares about actually attributing meaning to words?"

The meaning is attached by the receiver of the utterance.

*The definition of gender:

the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).*

I still think gender with the official definition is a useful concept. Because:

1. It only states two categories ;male and female

1. There are social and cultural differences between men and women. And these are worth examining and discussing

Good for you 👍🏻

Into things I don’t care about:

• your opinions

HTH

There are two sexes. Everything else is just personality.

Exactly. So if I'm filling in a medical form, they need to know my sex. If they ask my gender, how do I know if they want to know a) if I like wearing dresses or b) if I have, or have had at some point, a uterus?