To not care whether people say sex or gender.

[TeeJay1970]

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

Well you should

I guess it's no wonder that I agree with raspberryTrousers. I CBA to bang my head against this particular brick wall this morning, but raspberry I'm in your corner with a towel.

I dont correct people though i might ask for clarification

This seems totally reasonable if clarification is required.

'Gender' has been used as a euphemism for 'sex' for decades. I think it's useful to preserve distinctions between words that mean different things (like imply/infer or vulva/vagina) and I'm going to insist that 'literally' doesn't mean 'figuratively'. I can see the argument that language evolves and meanings change ('gay' has also changed and I'm not fighting against that). But generally I think it's useful to have different words for different things.

I think the real problem is 'having sex', but I don't want to adopt 'fucking' or 'lovemaking' in general conversation.

As for transgender debates: yes, it's useful to distinguish between sex and gender so that everyone is talking about the same thing. When there are proposals for widespread social and legal changes there needs to be clarity.

And the same if they said vulva or vagina. It makes no difference

You’re being obtuse. If you teach your child the correct words for things, when they say “my vulva is sore” you know which part of the body they’re talking about.

Language is vitally important. Even more so when it’s used correctly.

I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

So you're just goading then?

I'm not being obtuse

Awkward.

Look, you might think that whatever a child calls their genitalia isn’t important, people actually working with abused children beg to differ.

But then you appear to be the type who uses “feminist” as an insult 😂

But FYI you can’t say “I’m not obtuse” when you’re making statements like

Actually, I don't. I completely switch off when MN'ers try to educate me on biological terms for my foof

"Look, you might think that whatever a child calls their genitalia isn’t important, people actually working with abused children beg to differ."

As a Headmistress and ex School Counselor with an MSc in Educational Psychology, I'm much better versed than average. There are many more qualified and experienced than me, but I'm also way ahead of most.

Educational School Counsellor's work to keep themselves in jobs; they look for problems where none exist and they read studies selectively.

Find me any evidence where changes in patterns of behaviour can be solely attributed to a child's lexical ability and I'll take you seriously.

"But then you appear to be the type who uses “feminist” as an insult"

Interesting jibe considering the topic. I think I'm a classical feminist i.e. equality of opportunity. If anything, I should be fighting for men's rights in the climate of identity politics and policing of thought and speech.

The current definition of feminism is something I distance myself from. I'm hardly alone. 7% of women in the UK call themselves feminists. 70% think of 'bitchy', 'nasty' and 'manhating' Fawcett Society when asked about modern feminism. Don't cry though. Just change.

'Obtuse' doesn't mean what you think it means if you think you refute my statement there.

It doesn't mean I'm slow to understand or insensitive. It means I don't care. HTH

It doesn't mean I'm slow to understand or insensitive. It means I don't care. HTH

Let’s agree to disagree because actually I think it’s the former and nothing you’ve posted disabuses me of that.

But yeah “I’m sooooo qualified” from a faceless poster on a forum doesn’t give you any more weight. I do indeed, HTH.

Well now I'm miserable. A headteacher who can't use apostrophes correctly claims to have a Masters in Educational Psychology but doesn't think language is important? What is the world coming to? I suddenly feel very old.

Find me any evidence where changes in patterns of behaviour can be solely attributed to a child's lexical ability and I'll take you seriously

Please do quote where I suggested that, and I’ll be happy to engage.

I would be more convinced that you and other posters really don’t care if you weren’t flinging insults at those that state that there is a different. Nice little sprinkling of the insult 😴 ‘transphobe’ throughout and use of the word feminist as an insult.

“The ‘lady’ doth protest too much, methinks” 😉

You don't care, I do care as do many other women. Why the need to let us know how little you care? I'm old and back in my day if we didn't care about something we just kept quiet. It's a shame people seem to have lost the ability to keep quiet when they don't care

Raspberry - If you're a feminist and think you should be fighting for mens rights, then you're really not a feminist and you've fundamentally misunderstood what it means to be one.

As a Headmistress and ex School Counselor with an MSc in Educational Psychology

Bull shit.. absolutely and entirely.fictional.
If there's even a slimmchance it's true you need to re take whatever exams you pretended to hold.

Let's explore shall we... Miss head teacher and educational psychologist..

raspberryTrousers

Something I've seen and put into practice in senior management is not simply what the idea is but how it's put across.

Senior management...

From another thread:
I'm glad she isn't struggling. I did say 'tend' as there will always be exceptions to the rule.

"He is one of the top readers in the class"

Aren't they all.

Nice attitude from a teacher there. Especially one with anything to do with psychology.

On another thread about a teenager being bullied.
Unpleasant but par for the course for teenage girls.

Nice attitude from a teacher, and a he'd teach and one with educational psychologist blah blah blah

In this thread:
"We should strive to be biologically correct."

Why?

Nice attitude teacher... Let's not be ccurate, let's base science on dem feelz

In a thread about a child's weight

The love your body movement is killing people.

Nice attitude teacher. Real nice..

So head mistress..
You make little of bullying.
Think people accepting their bodies is killing people.
Don't believe in accuracy in science and language.
And have disdain for children and their parents who are proud of them?

Perfect qualifications for a teacher.. absolutely perfect..

OK, well this is turning into an exchange of insults which is a shame because I think there is an interesting discussion to be had on what is gender.

I feel that we have surrendered gender to the trans ideology in an effort to protect our sex based rights. (which we have to do)

But in the hands of the trans ideology, gender has become a meaningless term. And yet it is still prevelant in our culture and can be used to take away single sex spaces and groups because they can be redefined as "single gender" which actually doesn't do any good because it makes a group sound like it is for women when in fact it's for everyone.

What I am saying is that I think we should reclaim gender. Even if it makes us sound less reasonable from a trans narrative.

I guess it's no wonder that I agree with raspberryTrousers. I CBA to bang my head against this particular brick wall this morning, but raspberry I'm in your corner with a towel.

So you think 'single gender' prisons, sports, changing rooms are fine yes? Even if that actually means 'mixed sex'? And you think all women should be OK with that?

'Obtuse' doesn't mean what you think it means

It doesn't mean I'm slow to understand or insensitive. It means I don't care. HTH

obtuse
/əbˈtjuːs/
adjective
1.
annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
"he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse"

Say that again teach? They didn't hear you at the back of the imaginary class where you pretend to work.

I used to agree with you OP, the terms used to be used interchangeably.

But when the Girl Guides moved from single sex to single gender and started letting in male bodied people and allowing male bodied teens to sleep in the same tents as girls without the knowledge or consent of the girls' parents, I changed my mind.

^^This.

Though I'm also concerned about school sex education. I had confusion from year 6 sex ed lessons now same child came out with they'd been told there were something like 50 different sexes.

At that point I checked they knew about reproduction and yes they did as thankful science lessons have stuck with the basic two sexes.

Language shouldn't be policed - its raison d'etre is to communicate an idea.

Yeah, who cares about actually attributing meaning to words?

War is peace
Slavery is freedom
Ignorance is strength

Amirite?

(typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Sex is biology
Gender is a social construct.

Its really not difficult unless you didnt understsnd what you yourself quoted?

When the word gender is bandied about to infer people of either sex are wrong in stating that they are male/female as fact, a scientific fact or its used as a way to dismiss girls and womens rights then it bloody does matter.

How would you define gender willow2017?

I asked the question a couple of pages back but no one has offered an alternative definition yet.