Ian Huntley ! This is wrong...

[HJWT]

I just don't have words

Blame the extreme posters for that.

When you say 'extreme' you mean those that are concerned with womens and girls rights, and don't want the law changed, right? You think this is an extreme position?

Always wondered why some were all about talking and grabbing screenshots. This must be why

Yeah i think it is

InfiniteSheldon Sun 09-Dec-18 13:29:29
We have to say people with penis' are women in the the new world here's some Caitlin Jenner

Apologies if wrong, but hasn't Caitlin Jenner fully transitioned?
So... if she has she'd be a fully transitioned transwoman then so your penis problem would fall down flat.

No caitlin hasn't fully transitioned

Still plays at the local golf club as well...apparently

rufus No caitlin hasn't fully transitioned

Ah right, thought I'd read somewhere that she had.

Thats what ive read at any rate

I haven't actually checked if you catch my drift

Still plays at the local golf club as well...apparently

And using the "deadname" for that, I read. Because this club only admits men as full members, or something, wasn't there?

To be fair, Jenner might just have been to lazy to apply for membership a second time, I don't quite remember.

Hestia so as you know a bit about her, do you know if she has fully transitioned?
As me and Rufus weren't sure

What frustrates me reading this thread is that a murderer is living a stocking wearing fantasy in prison.

This murderer lived their life on the outside fantasising about committing illegal actions and is now fantasising about his new life.

They may identify as trans now but, without exception, will be considered a woman alongside all other trans people according the Stonewall's umbrella. They may want surgery, hormones or change the way they dress. It's up to them how they present as a woman.

Some people are campaigning for trans people like Huntley to be moved to prisons under gender rather than sex, regardless of their crimes.

We all know that this has had consequences already. Does this need to happen yet again?

The stats show that there are more sexual offences that take place in mixed sex toilets than separate. This has nothing to do with self ID, but this is where we are heading at the moment. The removal of mixed sex spaces such as prisons. (I know someone can come along to post a stat if needed, I don't have time to research tonight).

I'm guessing that men don't like being in prison with Huntley, but I'm pretty sure that if I, a woman, ended up in prison with this murderer, I would be fucking terrified.

I hope my ramble makes sense

Yes hestia

Its men only you see, well for the good membership and tee times at least

at the point Karen White was sent to prison, he was not a convicted rapist

White was however in prison awaiting trial for two rapes, one of which was a multiple rape on a woman in the locked women's psychiatric ward. You'd have thought this would have been a reason not to let White into a woman's prison, but even that wasn't.

Segregate on offence

The line of argument that Huntley is an exception to self ID because they pose too much of a risk to be allowed into a women's prison: that one gets shot down on the grounds that if Huntley is a woman, then Huntley must be treated like any other woman who has committed murder and sex crimes, and be in a women's prison.

There's no escape from this. It's either all or none. And since all is not reasonable, then it must be no males in spaces where females are vulnerable, and another solution found for transwomen.

Verbeena please stop implying that I have made transphobic remarks on this or any thread as I have not.
I have explained very clearly (as have MNHQ) why those posts were deleted. Stop it.

As for the posts where you claim I say 'they are all men' I am not sure what you mean. If you mean where I refer to NH and KW as male then I am sure that they are still there as are other people's posts stating the same thing (the obvious).

And once again I am not in any way 'extreme' unless you think that saying that violent male rapists, paedophiles and murderers should not be allowed in women's prisons makes me an extremist.

do you know if she has fully transitioned?

Does it matter, verbeena? Is someone more or less of a woman according to whether or not they have a penis? I thought you were more of the view that that aspect wasn't important.

He asks
DM find out
Outrage

I would imagine that its highly unlikely to happen

Nice try Ian

Maintaining that genital surgery is the mark of authenticity is heavily frowned by many transwomen, who call it forced sterilisation.

VisitorsEntrance Sun 09-Dec-18 19:03:41
This is not a goady question, Verbeena, but what do you believe as you seem to be arguing with a lot of people and I feel that we might all have a lot of common ground. Personally I believe that men are men, women are women, transmen are transmen and transwomen are transwomen.

I can see the problem with self ID. It's not a good idea. Seeing as extreme position is no penises in our spaces, why do they want no transwomen in there at all? If the offending "bits" are no more?

Well, verbeena, what point is there in cutting off a penis to ‚fully Transition‘ when the penis in question is a female penis to begin with?

Does it matter, verbeena? Is someone more or less of a woman according to whether or not they have a penis? I thought you were more of the view that that aspect wasn't important

was genuinely wondering like rufus as I thought she had but rufus said she thought she hadn't

Well, verbeena, what point is there in cutting off a penis to ‚fully Transition‘ when the penis in question is a female penis to begin with?

That's not what I asked.

A man who loses his penis in an accident wouldn't be transformed into a woman. "No penises" includes men who once had them.

Then you wonder why I take the no point answering stance?
There just literally isn't any point, you can't even see what I'm saying so - meh.

I’ve said this before on other threads but I think it’s worth repeating.

Having a system where it is at all possible for a man to be placed in a women’s jail is asking for trouble. People fuck up. They make poor descisions. Sometimes innocently and with good will. Sometimes deliberately.
If we have a system where it’s POSSIBLE for a man to be transferred then we are relying on people being able to decide who is a risk and who isn’t.
A better system, which eliminates that risk is simply to make it impossible for a man to be placed in a women’s prison.

No chance of errors. No chance of a board getting it wrong.

But that is now the rhetoric that we are faced with. Transwomen have female penises because the transwomen have always been women.