To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

[Badmoonsarising]

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

Legislation forces us to utter made-up words

all words are made up

Yes, MN is just like Stormfront.

I'd guess around 95% of the feminism board threads are about trans issues, and there is a nasty, underlying whiff of transphobia in many of the posts. When I think of all the issues that could be discussed on the feminist boards that affect women - rape, violence, disability, racism, war - and yet none of these topics get much interest. 87% of austerity directly affects women, and 80% of women are mothers. The conviction rate for rape is 6%, domestic violence 5%. Mums living in poverty are having to turn to sex work to feed their kids. According to the Family Rights Group, domestic violence is the most common reason now for social services to start family court proceedings, and victims of DV are losing their kids because they either 'failed to protect them from witnessing DV' or their kids are at risk of future emotional harm, and a lot of those kids are having to have contact with their violent dads when they don't want to. Women seeking asylum here are being separated from their kids and being sent back to countries where they are risk of rape and murder. Universal credit is going to plunge more mothers and their poverty. And so much more!

Sometimes things like this are discussed on the feminist board, but 8 out of 10 threads are about trans issues, and are hostile to trans people. So I am not suprised.

No one can allow men to become women because it isn't possible

Surely you won't need to read them Peng if they will be deleted? :)

Not shocked at all. Women saying ‘no’ to men, women having political opinions, women wanting the right to define themselves with words and spaces - that’s all just a bit much, a tad uppity, and potentially spoils men’s fun. We’re labelled butches, witches, frigid, insane, hysterical, moody, aggressive etc etc etc if we dare say ‘no’ to men, so...what’s new? It’s all the same thing with a different set of shoes.

onefootinthegrave but if the word woman is rendering meaningless then how can we discuss those things that affect women? This is an assault on our very language.

@FunkyKingston
Do you want legislation to compel to you speak certain pronouns? I think it’s a step too far. We can behave with decency without a government forcing us to do it.

onefootinthegrave absolutely. I'd add to that the number of posters who now cite being politically homeless as if this issue is the only consideration when casting one's vote.

Yes, MN is just like Stormfront

I'll tell you what, mumsnet users in general have extreme difficulty with analogies.

Why do it behind a computer screen. This country is full of shit and piss why don't you go out of your house and let people know who you are and what you stand for.

@Auntiepatricia

I’m not asking anyone to apologise. But I would suggest that anyone shielding a rapist or a child molester needs to take a good look at their reasons.

The active campaigning from some activists to allow rapists into women’s prisons because they identify as a women speaks volumes about their opinions of women and their lack of concerns for the safety of women.

Of course there are lots of trans people who are just trying to get in with their lives. They should be able to.

But the most vocal activists are pushing for changes to laws that will put dangerous men in women’s spaces based on the feelings of those men.

If I were trans I would be worried about who is representing me and what their attitudes are. Mostly misogynistic, homophobic and racist.

Who says I don't?

What you said, Tam. The erasing of sex, the rendering if the word woman into a meaningless artefact is the root of the problem here. When you look at factors that cause oppression/disadvantage sex runs through them all.

I've always been quite shocked by the transphobia on here, especially since in other areas Mumsnet is generally quite liberal. Generally I don't say anything because I've seen other posters shouted down, but yes, it's quite vile sometimes.

Do you mean like posting on twitter, or attending a meeting to disciss the GRA? Cause women who do that tend to get rape threats, death threats and, oh yes, attacked.

How do you define "woman" btw?

And by the way, that is my opinion as a woman.

I'll tell you what, mumsnet users in general have extreme difficulty with analogies.

Your analogy is with a neo-Nazi forum, set up for and by neo-Nazis, to promote white supremacy. Racism isn't something which just happens to turn up on Stormfront, it's why Stormfront exists.

If you think Mumsnet is to gender what Stormfront is to race, then I politely suggest your analogy may be the tiniest bit off track.

I've been known as a Tom boy.

There seems to be a lot of fear of trans people here. I never really click into the threads, they're usually on the Feminism board, and tend to be too waffly and difficult to understand for me, but the titles tend to summarise what the debate is going to be about. I'm a little uneasy about it tbh. I've read some threads, and there are some valid points, but it does very much feel like a hotbed of transphobia there.

I find myself wondering about how I would feel if I was trans/transitioning/felt like I should be a different gender, I would feel very much loathed and scared really by the vehemently venomous hatred of particularly men transitioning to women.

There is a reason why there are so many trans threads, and this is because of the 'Self-Id' bills being consulted for / discussed in the UK and Scottish parliaments right now.

It is compounded by the #nodebate and 'transphobic' comments.

It is further compounded by Girl Guides letting male bodied teens share tents with girls without knowledge or consent of their parents, when traditionally 'safeguarding' has separated by sex.

The word 'woman' is being redefined. Actually it isn't, because there doesn't seem to be an objective definition that isn't circular. (i.e. One that stands up to more scrutiny than 'a woman is anyone who feels like a woman').

@WhoNose88

If you look at the women campaigning for women’s voices to be heard in regards to self id they are mainly left leaning feminists with a history of campaigning for gay rights and against sexual violence.

What is more likely- that all these women have become right leaning bigots over night or that there is something deeply authoritarian and regressive about transactivists and transpokitics?

Linda Bellos is a gay rights icon.

We segregate by sex for many good reason ls (dignity, safety etc). I am very suspicious of all these people arguing that every space should be mixed sex, that women don't ever need their own spaces, that men should be included everywhere.

It's a huge reversal of the small amount of progress that women have managed to make over the years in the UK.

If you think Mumsnet is to gender what Stormfront is to race, then I politely suggest your analogy may be the tiniest bit off track.

Christ. Way to avoid the point.

There is lots of anti-trans sentiment on mumsnet. A lot. There is also lots of legitimate discussion. For some reason most of those who claim to only be involved in the latter are vehement about denying the former exists.

surgery doesn’t change biology or chromosomes. A neovagina isn’t a vagina, it’s an open wound which has to be dilated daily or it closes.

Would you say that to a trans woman. Regardless of whether you're right it sounds fucking nasty. I hope that a trans woman is not reading your venomous post.