To dislike 'mum groups' because of the this kind of attitude

[GunpowderGelatine]

I have a DS who's almost 2 and I work part time so try and get out to 'mum groups' in the area on my days off. Not just for him but for my own benefit to see friends and prevent isolation etc. But I often find the attitudes a bit ridiculous, mothers are treated either like idiots or children. last week me and a friend went to one and she was (very quietly) telling me about her husband's recent health diagnosis. It was the end so some mums and babies had gathered in the middle to sing. Our babies wanted breastfed so we sat at the side, away from the circle to feed them and chat as she needed support (again we were very quiet). One of the co-leaders came up to us and asked us to be quiet because the children are singing wheels on the bus and we should be listening so we had to sit in silence feeding them.

This week I went to a new one and there were posters everywhere with pictures of mobile phones and a big red X over them. The posters said "mobile phones are banned in this group, you are here to interact with your children and enjoy watching them play and grow". FFS you can't tell grown ups they can't look at their phone!

These are just 2 examples, I've been to groups with my older children where we were told we 'had' to sing at the end, and I went to another where I got told off for eating a mars bar because, whilst eating wasn't banned there, it doesn't promote healthy eating AIBU to want to be treated like a human and not some stupid mumbot who needs to be told what to do and 'told off' if I misbehave?

I hope you are not suggesting that mothers with babies that need to be breastfed should patiently wait until singing is over before their babies needs are met?

I was unaware you couldn't breastfeed without talking? Hmm

he few times I went I was there so my kids could go off and play and grow, and I could have a cup of tea in peace...

Yep, and then the other parent who is trying to deal with your little darling taking toys off their child or hitting their child can just look after them for you.

I bet most of you would lose your shit if you showed up to nursery to find the person watching them dicking around on their phone

Well yes because they wouldn't be doing their job we pay them for. Slightly different to looking after your child yourself 🙄🙄

o one looks at another mum to chat, or goes to get a cuppa and biscuit, or check their phone for a text they're expecting?

Adults know how to talk when people aren't singing. That's how being an adult works.

The school disco thing is absolutely a safeguarding issue. As members of school staff we are told very clearly in safeguarding training that we must ask visitors etc to put phones away if people have them out.

Can't believe you weren't allowed to eat a Mars Bar though...!!!

Well yes because they wouldn't be doing their job we pay them for. Slightly different to looking after your child yourself

No it's not. Because you've just admitted they aren't doing their job. And that they can't possibly be taking care of the children correctly whilst on the phone.

Which means that a room full of toddlers are not being looked after safely when their parents refuse to parent. Which means, yes, stay with me here, some other fucker will have to do it for you. Geddit?

sollyfromsurrey of course not! As I said, at the group I run no one has to stay for singing. All the toys get put away before then anyway. It’s a large space, so even if a carer wanted to stay but not join in, they could it away from the singing.

I also said that I wouldn’t say anything, even if it was distracting me while I was leading the singing (which is way out of my comfort zone, bring an introvert with a terrible voice, but I do anyway because I know the majority of children and carers enjoy it). I was just offering a different perspective.

If you want to ignore your kids at home have at it, but in a room with dozens of toddlers you don't let other people look after them for you. Or you have the decency to pay someone else to do it for you.

mrsfrumble some people do appreciate the work volunteers like you do. I had three under 3 and it was the only time I got out of the house. It's always pissed me off watching volunteers running around after adults getting them biscuits and putting away all the toys with no help.

Do people really stare at their children the whole time in these baby groups? No one looks at another mum to chat, or goes to get a cuppa and biscuit, or check their phone for a text they're expecting?

when my kids were little and going to such group, I could keep an eye on them at all time whilst having a cuppa or chatting. The time to let them play unsupervised is the privacy of your own home.

To be honest, I don’t think you should be talking while someone is leading a singsong. I think it’s rude and distracting. Of course you shouldn’t be forced to join in against your will, but then I think you should sit quietly at the sides.

YABU
The children need to learn that rules are rules. They enjoy going to a group where there is a routine everyone joins in, if everyone just decided to do their own thing the whole thing would fall apart.
The odd furtive phone check or nibble at something in a bag is ok by my book but I don't think their rules are unreasonable.

you are supposed to PARENT and keep an eye on them

Christ, I do that too - but I don't hover, they don't need me next to them.

How I've done it seems to work - at softplay the only time I've had to get involved with mine is when I've noticed them patiently waiting somewhere whilst other kids push in front, and I've had to step in to remind them they're allowed to assert themselves

Just be glad you have the option of going to groups, all ours are closing down. The council have scrapped all the sure start ones and even the church groups are shutting due to lack of volunteers, it's very sad.

They sound great. Much better than the clickey mums all sitting together gossiping and ignoring their kids. Who inevitably tried to get my attention away from my own child because I was one of the few adults on the floor interacting with mine.

Sitting in the corner talking while there’s an activity (which you came in for and supposedly are your kids are participating in) is just rude.

The sure start children centre had policy that wouldn't let me have a drink in same room as my children - hot ones because I might spill it and cold because they had to be consistent.

My children didn’t like not being able to see me and at one point I had quite a walk to get there and was bf - if I had a bad morning and forgot to pack a water bottle it was a long thirsty morning.

Being heavily pg and not allowed a seat but having to sit on the floor was fun too – apparently seats were out as they discouraged parents interacting with their children.

Mostly they were good though – only once had a problem with a staff member. Toddler made it clear she was playing by herself not far from me – so decide to sit and bf baby. That staff member rushed and made some nasty comment about me ignoring my child only for said toddler to make it plain she didn’t want a bar of this woman’s interactions. What was especially annoying as any other time I’d have welcome a bit of help – but it was the second I was sat down for few minutes with two happy children she rushed over to tell me what a shit parent I was.

I'm honestly surprised there are any left now though - they were struggling to stay open when mine were just getting to old for them.

It depends on the purpose of the group. The one I went to was all about allowing the children to go off and play while the parents chatted, or went on their phone, that was definitely not banned. We did some singing happy clappy Christian songs at the end, but it was in a church so I didn't mind too much.

It doesn't sound very well structured if there is singing and chatting at the same time. Parents do want to chat, or just be on their own without the kids all over them, and it is important that people might get to discuss important issues that they haven't been able to come to terms with yet. You are right, OP, that mums are routinely talked down to and patronised, and their chat is dismissed as "gossip".

That's what your HOUSE is designed for.

So all others who want to do more than gaze at their children should just stay at home?

When you force your children upon others

What at a baby and toddler group? 🤣🤣

I agree with the not chatting while they are singing, not having phone out (checkable but not out) and the mars bar thing!

When I used to go to toddler groups the sure start were the worst though - especially the group i wen to when I had ds who has additional needs, it was appallingly run.

I was 29 when I had DD1, and it was amazing how often older people addressed me in such a patronising way in the first few months as if I were some feckless teenage single mum (in their minds, I have nothing but admiration for single mums and young mums).

I'd send an email to the organiser suggesting how they might change things. Or just go somewhere else more friendly. Some parents also organise their own if there is no such provision locally.

one thing i have noticed with social media and phones......it it NEVER just a quick glance at a text!!

it ends up being a good few minutes at least....checking those little red dots for a notification about something....it goes on....a reply to a message is always forthcoming

my baby/toddler group days were before the social media disease took hold thankfully. i now battle daily with a shop floor of young employees who sneakily check phones when we think they aren't looking. does not bode well for the future

The breastfeeding and chatting thing, it's hard to know without having been there whether you were disturbing the group or not.
But I totally agree with the phone thing, and it's rubbish to say it's passive agressive, it's just a sign. Get over it! You might just check for the odd text, but there are parents who spend all their time on their phones and need to be told.

Thank you VeggyGravy

I do love doing it (apart from the singing). I had 2 under 2 at one point, with a DH that worked long hours and no family support. The oldest was an absolute tear away (in retrospect it was bloody obvious even then that he has ADHD!) and I’ve done the walk of shame out of various groups, 10 minutes after arriving, with a howling newborn under one arm and Tasmanian Devil toddler under the other. Although I can laugh about it now it was a pretty dark time for me, and now my children are older and I have some free time I’m genuinely grateful for the chance to provide for light for others “in the trenches”. At our group we’re honestly happy to fetch cups of tea, mop up wee, hold babies and provide a sympathetic ear. We want to be as welcoming as possible, so we don’t go around telling people off or being passive aggressive, but I do understand why other groups might resort to being more strict in an effort to keep things safe and enjoyable for everyone. (Except the Mars bar ban. There’s no excuse for that madness!)

I used to go to a Surestart group when DS1 was a baby nearly 10 years ago, so when fewer people had smartphones. Even then, they had a phone ban, and they did enforce it. I remember a couple of mums who arrived talking on their phones being asked to put them away after a couple of minutes.

*When you force your children upon others

What at a baby and toddler group? *

exactly at a toddler and baby group! Your toddler being a toddler hasn't mastered any social skills yet, that's the age when they are more likely to hurt someone, scratch them, snatch a toy, bash someone else with the toy, basically hurt or make another child cry without being really aware of it.

By experience, the worst ones are the unsupervised ones! Not so bad if they target a child of the same age, but when there are babies around, it's completely unacceptable.

How will they learn if you are too busy chatting, playing on your phone and drinking your tea? Look after your own child, he's no one else's responsibility.