AIBU to wonder when woman started obsessing over their lady garden?

[Hellsbells35]

I had the misfortune of watching Naked Attraction and was shocked at the lack of pubes...and how people were berated for having a postage stamp sized amount. The men’s view also seemed to be strange where there was a definite trend for those looking like a plucked turkey.

I dabbled with a Brazilian when I was in my twenties but soon stopped when I realised it was a complete waste of time and money.

I now have a full bush and I love it. I really don’t see the appeal of shaving/waxing to have horrid regrowth and ingrown hairs or to look like a child.

AIBU to think we should all band together and let our lady gardens flourish to turn the tide on this degrading trend?

Pure beauty therapists!

Poor !!!

I wonder if men worry so much about so called hygiene issues

I think it’s possible to note a preference when dealing with periods to be hair free on a personal level without that being extrapolated out to be suggesting periods are dirty.

I’ve got conditions that make my periods awful. And since losing the hair I’ve found it preferable.

@Storm4star

You misunderstand.

I have no objection to a loose pube getting in my mouth and me having to "pf pf pf" to get it out, or pick it out with a finger. Obviously this happens every now and again.

I just happen to not find it very erotic to dive face first into a pile of hair with my nose or an open mouth (figuratively speaking). I don't particularly like the sensation of licking, kissing, sucking or indeed any other mouth-manipulation on a huge patch of pubes. I honestly can't imagine that adding to the experience at all, and nobody has yet said that it does. Only that it "isn't a problem". That's not exactly a high bar to set, is it? How about we aim a little higher than "doesn't actively impede orgasm"?

Oral sex is centred around the clitoris and vulva is it not? Similarly, a man's penis, not the bush above it. There is no hair there!

Depends on how you do it. I kinda think that oral should include attention being paid to everything from the tops of the thighs to just below the stomach. I'd suggest that anyone restricting themselves to the inside of the labia majora or clit and never venturing anywhere else with their lips or tongue is doing their partner a gross disservice. On the other hand if literally every other part of the crotch is buried in untrimmed hair then I don't exactly blame them either.

If someone is performing oral on me then I like a little more variation than just sticking the head and shaft in their mouth. Sucking or licking the balls? Can't imagine that's much fun when they have 2-3cm of pubes covering them. So I get rid, on the assumption that'll make it more pleasant for my DP.

My pubic region is awesome, and anyone who is lucky enough to get to touch it doesn't also get to tell me how to groom it

Well then we have different attitudes towards sex within a relationship, because my attitude has always been "how can I maximise the pleasure of my partner without compromising my own?" and if my DP appreciates me doing something in particular then that would seem to be win-win to me. They're more turned on, I get more oral. I don't see the problem with this situation, and I certainly wouldn't see it as "telling me what to do". You literally both win, and have better sex as a result.

I'd suggest that anyone restricting themselves to the inside of the labia majora or clit and never venturing anywhere else with their lips or tongue is doing their partner a gross disservice

Oh god. Yeah thats what everyone does, mate, everyone except you.

Sucking or licking the balls? Lol no thanks.

I don't particularly like the sensation of licking, kissing, sucking or indeed any other mouth-manipulation on a huge patch of pubes.

For a start, most women don't have a 'huge patch of pubes'. That is to say, this is the sort of hyperbole that's trotted out on these threads, but isn't actual reality.

And secondly, if you're licking/kissing/sucking the pubes, you need to look at your entry-level oral technique. Why would you even do that?

@Sethis

But look at the wording you are using... "a pile of hair" "a huge patch of pubes" what do you define as a pile or a huge patch? I have neither but I don't shave, never have. Not every woman can grow a beard down there you know! If my hair was that unruly then I'm sure I probably would trim it, but your posts come across as judgmental. You do know all women are different right?

but your posts come across as judgmental

A number from people from both “sides” are doing a fine job of that!

How about we aim a little higher than "doesn't actively impede orgasm"?

And this....the one time I tried shaving at a partners request. For one, I hated how it looked and I had to see it every time I showered or peed! For two, my knickers really rubbed against the skin and caused me discomfort (sorry for tmi but they did!). My day to day life means more to me than orgasms! So it isn't about "aiming higher" its about me being comfortable with what I do with my own body. If a man doesn't like that, he knows where the door is!

Out of interest, are their men out there who remove ALL their pubic hair?

Because that really must look pre-pubescent, even if arguably a pube-free women doesn't (and the latter doesn't because it has become so widespread now).

I would find a naked, pube-free man quite viscerally off-putting, if I'm honest.

*there

@greenpop21

So I guess you're equally happy with your partner going "lol no thanks" when you suggest they give you oral?

@Storm4star

Absolutely, all people are different, but unless this thread descends to the point of people including pictures in their posts then all I have to go on when it comes to "completely unshaven, untrimmed pubic hair" is that which I have seen myself, which has ranged from "light down" to "classical Persian beard" levels.

And secondly, if you're licking/kissing/sucking the pubes, you need to look at your entry-level oral technique. Why would you even do that?

Every post I've made has been to illustrate how much this shouldn't be a thing. I have no idea how you've managed to get so turned around you think this is something I would do.

My point is that if every location other than the actual labia and clit is covered in hair, don't be surprised if your partner restricts their oral to those locations. Likewise if I didn't trim at all, I wouldn't be surprised if my DP wasn't keen on venturing away from the head.

@Sethis

But can't you see that you are only going by your own personal preference? I've read a large majority of this thread, and threads on this topic in the past, and some men prefer hair. Not all men want clean shaven. Us women cannot answer for you why those men find hair more erotic than no hair. We're not the one's going down there! But there are definitely still men (even now) that don't like the bald look.

People with your type of attitude are part of the problem we are complaining about! Young girls being told that men won't want them if they have hair. You have made comments like that yourself. Do you not see that as an issue? Do you think that pre this era of shaving it all off, everyone was having crap sex?? Really??

It's not about me forcing my preferences on anyone. As said repeatedly, it's a conversation a couple should have together.

What I take issue with is the judgement that women get on threads like this when they do shave, and people labelling it as "porn culture" when actually a woman can do pretty much whatever she wants down there and the only person who should give a fuck is herself and her partner.

some men prefer hair

From my own experience talking to other men, a significant minority.

I've met a few men who don't overly mind one way or the other, but literally nobody, ever, who said they prefer completely untended. A lot of men simply don't want the potential drama of having the discussion in the first place. But if a man is happier to go down on a shaved woman, then he shouldn't be pilloried for "controlling women" and "wanting her to look like a little girl". Get a grip. Most men are not, in fact, oppressive of their partners or closet paedophiles. The thread started with an OP calling shaving your pubic hair "degrading" ffs and hasn't really improved from there.

Young girls being told that men won't want them if they have hair. You have made comments like that yourself.

So me stating my honest opinion of preferring trimmed or shaved is somehow contributing to the mental anguish of young girls? Despite the fact that I have never spoken about this with any woman who wasn't my DP?

Who is telling them that "men won't want them"? It obviously can't be MEN, because otherwise that sentence doesn't make sense at all! That means it has to be other women telling young girls what to do with their pubic hair. Lo and behold, we have 3 pages of judgemental thread of exactly that. Women telling other women how their choice of crotch topiary is a political statement in and of itself.

Style magazines? Written by women, for women.
Sex advice? Written by women, for women.
Tips on personal grooming? Written by women, for women.

So please don't be prosecuting men for forcing our woefully unreasonable expectations on you without first taking a long hard look at where these messages are actually being published.

Well yes actually it is men. I have online dated, a lot (given up now). I can tell you categorically that a lot of the men thought it was fine to ask me if I was shaved before we got even close to dtd. At school now, boys openly discuss how “disgusting” hair is on women. Yes women might publish and broadcast those messages, but those messages came from men.

Christ, the last thing I need on a quiet Tuesday night is to read about what a man thinks about female pubic hair! What a fucking drag. Where can I go to find a place which is like wot Mumsnet used to be?

From my own experience talking to other men, a significant minority.

I've met a few men who don't overly mind one way or the other, but literally nobody, ever, who said they prefer completely untended.

So the pressure is coming from men.

And it certainly is, if they're the ones asking their partners to do it.

What if the woman doesn't want to (pain, cost, time, maintenance, personal preference)? Where does that leave her, when her partner has said he doesn't like it the way it is?

I for one am amazed at the number of posters who can get rid of pubic hair and suffer no ill effects. Genuinely, I'm impressed and also a little jealous! I thought itchy regrowth, unattractive stubble and ingrown hairs were par for the course, but either theres a genetic lottery out there or you've all got the patience of saints

the only person who should give a fuck is herself and her partner.

No, the only person who should make a decision about body hair removal is the woman herself. I don't want to remove my body hair and if my DH wanted me to, that would be just tough. I don't expect to have a say in what he does with his body hair. I wouldn't tell him how to get the hair on his head cut either.

I think the main point that those of us with hair are trying to get across is that we don’t care what adult women choose to do with their own bodies. We honestly don’t. We couldn’t care less who shaves and who doesn’t. The disturbing thing for us is young females feeling they “have to” shave to be socially acceptable. Whether that pressure comes from males or females, doesn’t matter, we could argue that point all night long. It’s the fact that there is pressure at all that is disturbing. I have a DD, she’s an adult. I wouldn’t ask her if she shaves because that’s her business. I can only hope that whatever she does is because she wants to. She’s pretty bloody strong willed, lol so I’d guess it is! But many girls just want to fit in. I would be very upset if I had a DD that shaved because she thinks (not without good reason if you go by Sethis) that this is what men want or that other women would think she’s disgusting if she didn’t. I don’t know why the shaving advocates find this so hard to understand? Consenting adults can do whatever the hell they want but when that influence spills over into teenage girls or boys, that is wrong,

The disturbing thing for us is young females feeling they “have to” shave to be socially acceptable. Whether that pressure comes from males or females, doesn’t matter, we could argue that point all night long. It’s the fact that there is pressure at all that is disturbing

Hear hear.

Mines as bushy as a bush. I don't bother with mine. Not everyone keeps their garden neat and tidy.

I’m in my 40s and have a bush. I sometimes trim it if I can bothered.

It definitely wasn’t a thing when I was growing up to remove it. I am pretty certain that in the drawings in The Joy of Sex (my teen sex-ed manual!) they both had pubic hair, and it wasn’t a thing in women’s magazines - only bikini lines were written about.

I occasionally wax my bikini line if we have a summer holiday planned just to avoid any stragglers, but that’s just a little bit at the sides, I am not particularly hairy anyway. I hate the feeling of the waxed bit, so sore and itchy, with ingrown hairs, so that alone would put me off doing the whole thing. DH likes my bush and I like him hairy too, I would hate it if he shaved his pubes off, I also like his hairy chest

For those who say a bush is itchy - the only time mine itches is when I’ve just trimmed it because the ends of the hair are blunt. So yours is probably itchy when you grow it out for the same reason. It does soften after a while.

And yes a pp was right - the Olympic women’s cycling team were advised not to remove pubic hair as it protected their genitals when cycling and stopped them getting sore - therefore they could train more, which is why they did so well in the Olympics.

And yy to the pubic hair directing the wee into the loo! I thought that was just me!!!