The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

Brilliotic - yes, we have stepped back. I thought it was all over and we have taken our eyes off the pedal. I need to step up again (school is so much harder than I anticipated it would be!)

The mother of the child that has made my child's school life hell also thinks her child is 'honestly a good kid' and has 'been led' by other children and is 'mature enough' to be able to spend time with older children.

She also reads her child books about being nice and rewards his angelic behaviour at home whilst paying basically no attention to his hideous behaviour at school.

Please please listen to all the posters on this thread telling you exactly the same thing and properly address your child's behaviour. You are doing him no favours looking at him with pfb specs

Yes a punishment is to deter him. Of course he'll feel bad while being grounded/missing something he enjoys/losing tv privileges but that's short term, no one is suggesting beating him over the head with it every second of the day!

Look Froggy we all love our children and see their good points but as responsible parents we can't be blinkered to the bad. He's a little boy, he needs you to steer him and while you may wish that lots of gently talking things through, discussing feelings and playing little acting games would stop this behaviour, it's clearly not working is it? In fact if you think about it he's getting lots of lovely attention from you isn't he?

And while you hope that basically cuddling a bit of sense into him will eventually work, other 7 year olds are sobbing to their mum about the boy who's nasty and aggressive towards them in school.

But are Ethans parents aware? Does the school communicate with both of you about both dcs behaviour?

Has it occurred to you that the parent of the child your child has been mean to also feels “helpless and useless” and doesn’t know what to do to make their child’s time at school better?

You’ve had a lot of good advice here I don’t think I’ve seen a single person on this thread who I’ve disagreed with apart from the OP. When you’re feeling less sorry for yourself maybe have another read through.

I do think Innocent might have a point.

It doesn’t matter how you feel, it matters how you behave.

Good behaviour is a choice.
Kindness is a choice.
Saying no to his friend is a choice.

His choices are his responsibility.

If his face is sad and his diary is sad think about how much sadder the face and diary of the children he’s bullying are... as a result of his choices.

It might be impossible your DS to change Ethan. It isn’t impossible for for your DS to change his own behaviour.

And he won’t “click” with anyone if he’s a known bully.

It ‘s highly unlikely that Ethan is the only kid in the class interested in football.

By not imposing consequences, you are basically telling him that it's not his fault he's a bully.

People are bullies for many reasons. For some, it is lack of confidence, for others, it's lashing out due to problems at home or elsewhere, for others, it's some other reason. But all of them choose to bully.

If he feels bad afterwards, then at least you have something to work with in getting him to stop. However, he obviously doesn't feel that bad, as if he did, he would stop.

Your job is to make him feel sufficiently bad about the bullying so he will stop. This may involve increasing his empathy, increasing his confidence, and imposing punishments for bad behaviour.

By focusing on ethan, you are creating a child who does not have to take responsibility for his behaviour. Forget about ethan. Focus on your ds's behaviour, his self-confidence and his empathy. Provide opportunities for him to hang out with other children whose behaviour you would like him to model but please, accept that your ds is not a nice child in school and that is problem you need to solve.

Teach him to have his own mind and not be a sheep. He's only 7, if you can't nip it in the bud now how will you cope with all the 14yr old Ethans at secondary school.

My child had an Ethan for 3 years. It was awful - really toxic. My child wasn't actually bullying or hurting others (this was confirmed by teachers, before any posters pile in with allegations of me deluding myself!), but was definitely part of a group that was playing in a way that other DC might have found intimidating.

I HATED the situation. It was the absolute antithesis of my values, and how I'd want my kid to behave.

In our case, my child was clearly scared of the Ethan child - the Ethan equivalent, from nursery age onwards, created a "gang" with rules they had adhere to - and if they didn't adhere, they'd be rounded on, teased, even pushed about and kicked. So my kid, while not joining in with any bullying, basically tagged along around the edges so as not to be bullied. And he was really unhappy with it - he felt awful about being with this kid, but didn't know how to get away from him.

I tried to speak to school, but didn't really get anywhere until the third year of it, where we had a very tuned-in teacher. I told my kid not to play with the Ethan character, I tried to suggest others to play with, I talked over and over about the behaviour I expected from him, no matter what others were doing (there wasn't really anything to punish, as it was more subtle than that). What really changed was the group being deliberately split up when classes were shifted around, and my DS finally feeling able to be really good friends with a couple of other kids he's always liked, but had been told by the Ethan that he couldn't play with.

I strongly suspect this is what's happening with your DS - that he's going along with it because he's scared it'll be him next. That's how bullies work. You need to bolster him at home with as much role-play as you can, invite different kids home as much as possible so he has links to others that he can build on in the playground. But I also think it's fine to speak to the teacher and say that's a really toxic friendship, and you'd really like your DS kept separate in the classroom as much as possible.

As others have said, when it comes down to it your son is responsible for his own behaviour, and joining in on any aggression is an absolute no-no. A really big punishment might get this into his head. However, I think it can be a trickier dynamic than many of the posters here acknowledge, and many kids this age don't necessarily have the emotional wherewithal to deal with the conflicted feelings around this kind of relationship, so you need to do a lot of talking over how he's feeling as well.

And I will try and blame Ethan less in front of DS

Don’t blame him at all in front of DS! Honestly the biggest gift you will ever give your child is that of personal responsibility. Regardless of who else was involved, your DS is responsible for his own choices. He opened his own mouth and said mean things, he teased and taunted, he pinched and stole. Your currently giving your child a masterclass in how to get in trouble for free.

As in do the naughty thing and knownthere are no consequences because all he has to do is say someone else made him. It’s a really disgusting way to raise a person.

He feels bad. So fucking what! The child who he has bullied will feel worse, believe me. And evidently doesn’t feel bad enough not to do it again. He’s seven now, not a baby in reception class. Old enough to understand what he’s doing, and also old enough to realise that’s actions can have severe consequences. So give him severe consequences! ‘If you are mean to X, you can’t go to football practice’ or whatever. And make HIM explain to the coach why he had to miss practice. He might be a nice kid, but right now he is not acting like a nice kid. And mud sticks, so unless you want other parents and their DC regarding your son as an ‘ethan’ then you have to act.

You can do the working on his confidence stuff along the way, but you need to pull up your parent pants and be strong, firm and cross. Really cross. Angry, outraged and disappointed in him. The positive parenting comes in when you have a handle on this situation. ‘I’m so proud that you’re making good decisions and not doing naughty things with Ethan like you were last term’/‘you are so kind in class’ etc.

And I will try and blame Ethan less in front of DS

That really jumped out at me. You shouldn’t be blaming Ethan at all in front of your son! Whenever DS was badly behaved along with another friend(s), we always took the attitude of “I don’t care what X said/did etc”. I only care about what you said/did, and refused to bring the other child(REN) into it at all.

Another one who agrees your son needs to start taking responsibility!

I hate the term "he got in with the wrong crowd" no, he is "the wrong crowd!"

And I will try and blame Ethan less in front of DS

Holy fuck. That's your problem, right there.

You shouldn't be blaming Ethan at all, whether in front of Ds or not. Ethan isn't your problem. Your DS is, and at this point he is a bully. Woman the fuck up and do your job as a parent and stop being such a wet lettuce.

I haven't read all the advice, but I'd strongly.suggest doing role plays where maybe ds is Ethan and you are ds. You cab then give him words/ actions for how to respond. (Including walking away if he can't think of anything wise). He needs a lot of tools and you can give them to him. If he has the tools and chooses not to use them, he's in big trouble.

Also never blame Ethan. You don't need to be harsh, but firm boundaries and big consequences eg. No TV for a week if he is caught bullying.

And try and blame Ethan less? WTAF?! It’s YOUR SON who is being the shithead. Who gives a fig what Ethan did or didn’t do! You’re giving some fucked up messages to your son here. Oh dear god this is winding me up now.

Go speak to the teachers, get your DS to go to lunchtime clubs. After school clubs that Ethan doesn’t go to as well. He will make other friends. But you need the teachers on board.

If it was my child constantly being badly behaved at school, there would be cancelling of fun extra activities like swim club and football and I would be following through. Privileges need to be earned. And I am quite a softly softly approach parent.

Op come on you can't blame Ethan to your DS! It's your DS being mean to another poor child. That poor child dreads both Ethan and your DS. That's awful, concentrate on tell your DS how he's making the bullied child feel?

You seem to be making this situation about your DS not getting into trouble at school? It should be about making sure a 7 year old child can go to school without being bullied by your son.

Think about the bullied child in this?

OP there will be "Ethans" all through your son's life, and I am afraid there won't always be a teacher or yourself to monitor it and separate them, you have to instill in your son that mean and bullying behaviour is not ok, there is obviously something in him that enjoys the lure of bad behaviour be it brought on or initiated by Ethan, he needs to address this and you need to give him some life lessons even if he is only 6. Or else is will come across this all through his life

I feel sorry for Ethan. He's a little child who is being used as a scapegoat for other kids bad behaviour.

Sorry pressed send to soon!! You seem to want to somehow "protect" your son from blame and responsibility.

I can assure you the parents of the bullied child will not feel like that!

Your son is mean. You aren't dealing with it. His behaviour isn't changing. You need to change how you handle this behaviour.

The bullied children in your son's class don't care why your son is hurting them, they just want it to stop. Your son has probably already been labelled a naughty boy by the parents and teachers. Why on earth are you protecting your son from the full consequences of his actions?

He needs to understand that he is the problem, he is CHOOSING to hurt other children and that there is NO excuse.