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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

415 replies

FroggyLoggy · 26/11/2018 23:51

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again Sad

OP posts:
simiisme · 28/11/2018 19:03

Stop blaming the 'naughty' kid!
My DS's best pal was the 'naughty' kid - constantly in trouble in primary and at the start of secondary, but has calmed down a lot now he's in Yr 10. My DS has never had a single behaviour issue in his life. Because he knows right from wrong & doesn't mindlessly copy people.

Bobbi73 · 28/11/2018 19:04

I feel for you as you have rather come under attack but remember that they are still very small. When my son was in year 2 he made friends with a bunch of boys that I was a bit worried about, they were the 'cool' boys and weren't always the kindest kids. He was never mean or anything but I talked to him about how we can make choices and that you should never be unkind etc.
He's now in year 4 and has found different friends that are a really nice group. Also, the other boys have grown up too and are much nicer to be around now. You do have to give your son the right tools to stand up the Ethans of the world though, otherwise his teenage years and beyond are likely to be very difficult. Good luck 😀

corythatwas · 28/11/2018 19:06

*Just imagine, in a parallel universe, there really was a boy who was usually lovely, but he was actually being influenced and under the power of another boy who got him him trouble, got him to pick on kids, got him to do things that made him sad and his mummy very worried.

What would the advice then be? And how would the OP be able to pursuade posters this was true?*

The advice would be exactly what I have already given: tell your boy that it is his responsibility to refuse to pick on the other boy and that you will blame him, and only him, if he does. Tell him to tell the teacher if Ethan is mean to him for refusing but make it clear he has to refuse anyway. There IS no other way.

It doesn't MATTER what Ethan is or isn't. It doesn't MATTER what the OP's son is or isn't. ALL that matters is what the OP's son DOES.

Mymycherrypie · 28/11/2018 19:42

Ethan holds a lot of power for a little person

Ffs is he Emporer Ming? Stop giving some other persons kid head space and sort your own sons behaviour out.

choli · 28/11/2018 19:42

OP how did you find out about your son being mean to other kids? You say he was sorry and wrote about it in his diary. So did you find out from reading his diary?

lazyarse123 · 28/11/2018 19:50

My son was always a follower not a leader and him and his friends bullied a boy who had a bad home life. They were about 8 yr old. Me and school came down like a ton of bricks. No playtime for 2 weeks and i
didn't let him play out for the same length of time. I reiterated every
day before and after school that that sort of behaviour was not on. He never did it again, but the ringleader did say to me "i think the punishment is a bit harsh", very odd coming from an 8yrold. I just told him it wasn't harsh enough in my opinion. Now at 26 my son has a good job and never brought any trouble to our door. The ringleader on the other hand has caused no end of trouble. Punishment really is the way to go especially when someone is being hurt by a child so young.

RedSkyLastNight · 28/11/2018 19:55

I'm reminded of DD's description of the boys in her class.

There is an Ethan in her class - DD describes him as "really annoying boy". Ethan has his group of followers - DD describes them as "Ethan's really annoying boys". When Ethan is not there they are apparently only "mostly annoying" but still feel obliged to mess about.

The other boys in the class are described as "annoying but not as annoying as Ethan's really annoying boys who are - like - an extra level of annoying" and "not too bad I suppose".

She is Year 8, so much older than OP's DS. But I suspect the boys' behaviours were formed a long time ago.

Catsinthecupboard · 28/11/2018 21:19

You need to teach your son to be independent.

My dd hung out with an "Ethan" at age18/19. Horrible. Tragic consequences.

Teach him now, it's a difficult life lesson.

winniestone37 · 28/11/2018 21:22

Ah yes it's never your child's fault. How about you take responsability and in turn teach ypur child takes it too - newsflash ypur child isn't perfect. Like you.

wait68 · 28/11/2018 22:05

Bullies work in groups; and every member is a bully.
'A bully is a person who uses strength or influence to harm or intimidate those who are weaker. ' And your son has strength from ethan so by definition he is a bully too. They are bully buddies.
Bullying is repeatedly doing/saying something mean to someone.
So if he is doing these ,open your eyes.

MiniMum97 · 28/11/2018 22:17

I am going to be blunt here. You do not “discuss” things with children, you tell them what is right from wrong. You don’t have a cosy little chat like they are your friend, you are clear that certain behaviour is unacceptable and therefore has a consequence ie a punishment. Do you know what the bullying behaviour of your child is doing to other children? Bullying causes long term psychologically damage and you should be giving a clear message that it is completely unacceptable. Your child is behaving appalling from what you have said and DOES need punishment until you see his behaviour improve.

Punishing a child is not being horrible to them it is setting boundaries and children with boundaries are happier children as they have a clear understanding of what is expected of them.

You need to man up and start parenting.

TigerMummy1 · 28/11/2018 22:23

Haven't text OP so apologies if I'm repeating but as a teacher I've seen plenty of boys like Ethan over my time and they are hard work! And yes, it is difficult for an easily led 7 year old to resist that. Your DS does need to learn to take responsibility for his actions and be punished for his own choices and you can help him with that but it isn't unreasonable aged 7 to ask the teacher to help him too by sitting them separately. Problem is, someone has to sit with Ethan... and the poor child probably has reasons for his behaviour as you suggested in your OP.
Posters implying that there can't possibly be problem children like Ethan and it must be entirely your son's fault probably haven't spent long in a classroom.

TigerMummy1 · 28/11/2018 22:23

"Read the whole thread" Not "text"! Autocorrect...

youarenotkiddingme · 28/11/2018 22:28

Boy one poster has laid all the blame at the op ds door.

They've refused to believe it's acceptable she lays it all on Ethan.

Each person has to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. Op wants Ethan to bear the responsibility for her sons.

MissEliza · 28/11/2018 23:03

Tiger I see where you're coming from (I've spent many years in a classroom too) but don't you think parents need to educate their dcs that they are responsible for their own behaviour? It won't work overnight but if you keep repeating, your child will listen

Dinosaursaremyfriends · 28/11/2018 23:28

So let me just get this right, your son is a sweet, caring, honest, well behaved little boy at home. But he chose to listen to another 7 year old, over you when being given an instruction not to climb on the wall? Of course its Ethens faultHmm

My ds wouldn't even have put his foot up there for pure fear of embarrassment that he would be told off in front of his friends and would have been punished by losing his evening gaming time, infact i wouldn't even have said anything, a look would have been enough.

Namelessinseattle · 28/11/2018 23:46

I feel like this thread is like a parable or fable (without Jesus or animals) and Ethan Is a pseudonym for alcohol. He’s sooooo nice until he’s had a drink. He’s grand when he stays away from the drink. He was off it for a year and then he started working beside a pub, so it’s works fault for putting him beside the pub that has alcohol that makes him bad......

MadMadaMim · 29/11/2018 02:37

OP - your focus is skewed.

Your question should be 'I need advice on how to positively influence my DS to behave kindly and continue to be the good boy he's shown us he can be'

Your focus is fixated on something you have minimal/zero power to change - Ethan.

There are 16 pages of various comments/advice and so on, and you absolutely stand firm in your deep down refusal to accept that the fundamental problem here is not Ethan's influence. The fundamental problem to solve is that your DS is drawn to Ethan, for whatever reasons, and then quickly acts out of character - even defying his own mother which he would never do (but he clearly would, because he did) and you don't know how to change this behaviour. THAT is the issue you should be focusing on

As many have said - the world is full of Ethans. And the world is full of people drawn to Ethans. Will you remove DS when the next Ethan comes along? How many times will you do that?

What if he meets an Ethan as an adult - will you remove him then too?

If he's drawn to this Ethan, the likelihood is, he'll be drawn to other Ethans.

Surely it's better for DS, you and those around DS that he behaves positively REGARDLESS OF WHO HE'S FRIENDS WITH. Isn't that the best solution?

Before we can fix things, we need to know what we're fiixng or it's just wasted energy..

Refocus. Know what it is you need to fix

Also, as an aside, teaching our DC about consequence, reward and punishment doesn't mean being "harsh" as you have said multiple times. It means positive parenting.

(and it will be better for you as a parent and as a person if you learn to accept facts - good and bad. Acknowledging that your DS' behaviour is not nice and could be seen as bullying given that its repeated behaviour cropping up again, does not mean you're labelling your son as a bully or that DS is a horrible chiild. It simply means that you see and accept part of the behaviour your DS is currently engaging in.)

1forAll74 · 29/11/2018 04:04

Yes, I agree,that you are the very main,most important person, to educate your son, re this situation.. By talking carefully and wanting to help your child with these issues is the key..

At this age,children can understand lots of things, and learn what is right and wrong etc.. Its sad that some other children can be a bit naughty,and lead others to follow suit, always has been. but parents have to be the main influence in a child's life,

NewName54321 · 29/11/2018 04:25

If you keep blaming Ethan, or your whilst DS thinks you are still blaming Ethan, he will be drawn more towards him to be kind or fair to him, to "counter-balance” your negative view of Ethan.

The messages your DS needs are:
You are responsible for your behaviour and only for your behaviour.
Choices have consequences- if you choose to do x, the consequence will be y (and carry it through)

Your DS is 7. I know an 8-year-old who was permanently excluded for bringing a knife into school. He also had an "Ethan" who had told him to do it. Do you want that for your DS?

EugenesAxe · 29/11/2018 08:04

I read down to a bit beyond your second post and I have to agree with multiplemum - I was getting a lot of ‘appealing to reason’ solutions in your list of things you’ve tried (great, don’t get me wrong), but sometimes I think a complete bollocking is what’s necessary. Shout, withdraw privileges or things he likes etc., every time he and Ethan get up to something bad.

It’s a tough one because I’m not afraid to lose my rag, and I have a friend similar, and sometimes I worry I’ve made my DS ‘too’ considerate (I’m working a bit now on when assertiveness is good Hmm)... but both boys are very polite, and my son is a fierce defender of values. He’s friends with children who are similar and they all stand by each other. If your son is liked he could be a real force for good in the class, if he shows he’s not going to be pushed around.

Wolfiefan · 29/11/2018 08:14

If you put him in another school he is likely to find a new “Ethan”.
Stop blaming this child for your child’s decisions. Yes this child suggested climbing the wall. But your child decided to ignore you and do as suggested. He wasn’t forced to.
You say “Don’t you dare!” Not “please don’t”. Get harder. Be stronger. Go and physically remove him if you must.

Rurarura · 29/11/2018 08:34

@froggyloggy

Not sure if you will read this, because you seem to have checked out of this thread, but I just wanted to add my perspective.

I was 'Ethan', and the reason that your son is being influenced by him is because his resolve (for whatever reason) is weak. Ethans pray on kids that have weak resolve, they can smell it. Kids like Ethan feel out of control at home. They might be abused, their parents might be unstable, or some other factors have led to them seeking something, anything, that they can control. I remember looking for children who lacked confidence, were less spirited and eager to please. I could control them in the same way that I was being controlled at home, it provided some relief. That didn't mean that I had magical powers to control every child in my class.

From your posts, it sounds like you are low in confidence. You get easily defensive and look for ways to disprove what people have said about you or your DS; you're not confident enough to separate criticism about a particular issue from an attack on you as a parent (though some posters have definitely attacked you), and I suspect that this is rubbing off on your DS. You are not a bad parent, you are a lovely parent who is concerned about her DS and would like some opinions on how to stop him from running with Ethan. This thread has derailed because people have been (in a very Ethan like manner) preyed on your lack of confidence, resulting in you feeling like you have to be in fight or flight mode.

You don't want to make DS feel bad, you want him to be happy and nice and protected. This is lovely, but I would be able to suss this out easily and use it to manipulate. I think the main thing you need to work on with your DS is not punishment, but self-confidence and assertiveness. Strong-willed children are more difficult to manipulate (strong-willed is not the same as abrasive or badly behaved) and will do what they want to do, rather than what someone tells them. Basically, you need to nurture your DS independence and help him voice his own opinions. He needs to be his own person.

Your son may not be a bully, but saying mean things to people is bullying, whether he is being influenced to do so or not. You made a comparison to Hitler influencing grown men to do bad things. He did, he influenced weak men and women to do bad things, and those men and women went to prison or got shot when the allies won the war. You need to be careful not to focus too much on Ethan, or your son may end up becoming collateral damage.

Other posters are right when they talk about external locus of control. Be careful with how you talk about Ethan; you don't want to reinforce the idea that your DS' ability to not be mean to others is somehow out of his control. Funnily enough, this is exactly how Ethan justifies his own behaviour "I know it's bad, but I only suggested it, it's not my fault that he is willing to do it. I did not do anything." Regardless of your personal feelings, never give your DS the opportunity to think someone else might be at fault for his behaviour, this strengthens his ability to deny responsibility (all people love denying responsibility if possible, you do, I do, your DS does) minimise the opportunity to do so.

You need to improve your DS' self-reliance and stop reinforcing the idea that everyone has a reason to be hurtful or mean. They probably do, but they are also just being mean. It's inexcusable. I had problems at home, but I was (and perhaps still am) also just a bit of a bitch. Your DS needs to accept this and become a better judge of character.

I don't know how independent your DS is at home, but let him make more decisions, ask him for opinions and develop his sense of self. He obviously knows the difference between right and wrong, most people do. Ethan does. You need to develop his willingness to act on these morals. Help him become assertive and make his own choices. Don't just take away access to Ethan, Ethans exist everywhere and at every age. Improve your own self-confidence and project that onto your DS. He'll soon gain enough confidence to make his own decisions on who to follow and who to avoid.

PipGoesPop · 29/11/2018 08:39

What a brilliantly honest, helpful and kind post Rurarura.

user789653241 · 29/11/2018 08:56

Totally agree with Pip, what a brilliant post, Rurarura

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