Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

415 replies

FroggyLoggy · 26/11/2018 23:51

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again Sad

OP posts:
toomanyeggs · 28/11/2018 13:14

Thank you Claw001 & MsTSwift. We are getting there, thankfully she has OT and a psychologist who are great and really help her. But it taken a lot to get this girl off her back and for her to relax even a little bit.

The girl is not a nice child at all, and I honestly do not say that lightly! Her mother isn't much better, calling children & their parents names if they dare cross her or her child. It's easy to see where the girl gets it from.

Sorry for your son too, Claw! Flowers

Claw001 · 28/11/2018 13:25

So glad to hear your DD is getting some support and doing better than before. It wasn’t just one child with my son, it was multiple children. Bullies seem to be drawn to his vulnerability. My son is very quiet and shy.

All the kids seemed nice enough! Nice enough parents etc! Not your stereotypical bullies. Takes all sorts I suppose

budgiegirl · 28/11/2018 14:11

All the kids seemed nice enough! Nice enough parents etc! Not your stereotypical bullies. Takes all sorts I suppose

I reckon all children have the ability to be mean to some degree. Even the nicest children can have a lapse in judgement. Also, if one child is mean, others will often join in, when they wouldn’t have been mean on their own.

It’s how we react, and how we teach our children to treat others that matters.

Claw001 · 28/11/2018 14:31

Definitely Budgiegirl

Coyoacan · 28/11/2018 16:27

I get the impression that Ethan is an alter ego for your son, OP, a Mr. Hyde. Like some small children have an invisible friend who is the one who did the naughty thing, not them.

As long as Ethan is blamed for your son's misbehaviour, your son does not have to face his actions.

I'm not saying this as part of a pile-on. I have no reason to disbelieve you when you say your son isn't bullying although that was the impression you gave at the start.

We are all trying to steer our children through children as best we can. But it is very important for your child that he learns to assume responsability for his own actions. If he learns that he will have learnt something that the majority of adults have yet to learn.

youarenotkiddingme · 28/11/2018 16:29

I think what I'm struggling with is that you repeat

"Ethan is a bully he always says mean things to other kids"

Yet

"Ds sometimes says unkind things. He says them under Ethan's influence. Ds is not a bully"

Whether Ethan has an influence over your ds or not (and I do accept some kids do have this hold) you cannot or will not accept that 2 kids behaving the same way will be described in the same way.

If Ethan's behaviour is bullying then your ds identical behaviour is also bullying. Until you accept that you can't help ds because there's always a get out or lesser description for his behaviour.

I've watched a parent do the same to her DD. It was always the other child fault.
Her DD is now year with MH issues because secondary school are far harsher with this type of thing. They will no longer accept its influence. If she'd been told the effort must always remain and her mum had held her account for behaviour she probably wouldn't be where she is now.
It's Sad

MaisyPops · 28/11/2018 16:42

Wonderful advice fromkingfupanda, I couldn't agree more.
I also agree.

Though it seems most people on the thread are in agreement. It's fairly uncommon to get threads with such a strong consensus.

MissEliza · 28/11/2018 17:01

I reckon all children have the ability to be mean to a degree. I agree. Unfortunately after going through school with three dcs, I've found the meanest kids have the parents who think the sun shines out of their arses.
I could go on and on.
Op you are deluded and you've had some pretty sensible advice on this thread. My ds2 had a friend in foundation he'd always get in trouble with. I didn't blame the other child, I blamed my ds and his behaviour got better as a result. I've never had any significant problems since and he's 16.

FlorenceSpotter · 28/11/2018 17:35

Just imagine, in a parallel universe, there really was a boy who was usually lovely, but he was actually being influenced and under the power of another boy who got him him trouble, got him to pick on kids, got him to do things that made him sad and his mummy very worried.

What would the advice then be? And how would the OP be able to pursuade posters this was true?

Yb23487643 · 28/11/2018 17:40

Most kids can & are “easily led” by the likes of Ethan’s, but tbh in my experience they all take it in turns to be the Ethan. Even in reception I’d tell mine I know they think it’s funny but if it’s making someone unhappy then it’s not fun & if they keep doing that they’ll keep being mean & getting in trouble & do they really want that?

TigerTooth · 28/11/2018 17:42

I get it in reception but by year 2 he has to be responsible for his own actions.
Maybe Ethans mom feels the same way about your DS?

makadan600 · 28/11/2018 17:46

Sorry, but what you are doing at the moment, clearly isn’t working.
Personally I would punish him,by withdrawing privileges, swimming lessons, and pocket money.
I don’t think talking to him is making any difference to his behaviour.

SilverySurfer · 28/11/2018 17:59

OP, it seems that while you blame everything on Ethan, you will never really address and deal with the issue of your son's behaviour. You have no way of controlling or disciplining Ethan's actions so all your attention should be directed towards dealing with your son. Regardless of Ethan urging him on, it's still your son who bullied another child and needs to feel the consequences of doing that.

SushiMonster · 28/11/2018 18:02

So Ethan is a horrible bully and your son is a poor sweetheart who doesn’t know his own mind?

Sorry love, your son is just as nasty a bully as Ethan. Work with your son here.

JeWren · 28/11/2018 18:07

Hi,

Just wanted to say, my little fella used to be led astray (not into bullying, just into little naughty things like throwing balls over the school fence etc) by the naughty one in the class. Parents all knew who the naughty one was as he was naughty at all the birthday parties etc. A couple of years later, he is now on ADHD tablets and is better behaved, until they start to wear off.

It took a while to sort it, but it was attacking it from all angles - explaining to your child that he is responsible for his own behaviour (as has been said!), but also strengthening other friendships - have some play dates with his other friends from the class too. Go in and talk it through with the teacher - make sure you have a completely accurate picture too.
X

MissEliza · 28/11/2018 18:15

Maybe Ethan's mom feels the same way about your ds? I was thinking that as well.

MaisyPops · 28/11/2018 18:16

Just imagine, in a parallel universe, there really was a boy who was usually lovely, but he was actually being influenced and under the power of another boy who got him him trouble, got him to pick on kids, got him to do things that made him sad and his mummy very worried.
What would the advice then be? And how would the OP be able to pursuade posters this was true?
The advice would be the same.

In school no child 'makes' someone be unkind or make poor behaviour choices. A child can make poor choices when they are in the company of others but that's not the fault or responsibility of the other child.

Arguing children have no agency or responsibility is a sad view. After all, if poor behaviour is the fault of another child thrn logically OP shouldn't praise their child for good choices because their child's behaviour is not their own to control so praise would be unjustified. (Can't say bad behaviour has an external fault but good behaviour is internal)

Once one of my more challenging classes told me they were learning so much more this year because 'you make us behave'. It's nonsense though. I don't make them behave. I dont force them. They choose to make positive choices so they can learn. They choose to behave in a way that is polite and kind. Now around that there are rewards, sanctions and positive relationships but I'll never claim I make students behave. They have agency and can choose to exercise it positively or negatively.

LavenderBush · 28/11/2018 18:26

When I was at school and a new kid joined the class, the teacher would always sit them next to the kind/mature/responsible/goody-goody kid(s) in the classroom, and ask them to show the newbie around and play with them at breaktime.

So they did this. For a week or two, the newbie would hang out with the goody-goody kids.

BUT after that, the newbie would always settle down into a friendship group with the kids who were... just like them. It might be the cool kids, or the tough kids, or the mean kids (or even the goody-goody kids).

I'm pretty sure this happens in just about every school.

Moral of the story: people choose their friends, and they normally choose the ones who are like themselves.

AvaWalsta · 28/11/2018 18:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

choli · 28/11/2018 18:35

This thread remings me of two things.

Marsha Marsha Marsha.

And Shirley Jackson's short story Charles.

MissEliza · 28/11/2018 18:35

Yes Lavender I've been saying that for years.

Pasithea · 28/11/2018 18:43

Ffs are we still blaming Ethan.

ClarabellaCTL · 28/11/2018 18:45

You can't keep your child away from every bad influence. Teach him how to behave so that he doesn't join in with it. It's a good life skill to learn - how to walk away from trouble and not get dragged into it.

00lili00 · 28/11/2018 18:46

I think You are splitting . Ethan is all bad. Your child is all good . Do you know that Ethan is troubled by his home life? I know it is difficult when young children seem to copy others begaviour. But you are scapegoating. Rather than blame, I agree with most of the posters here to look to your child’s behaviour regardless of the influences. It’s an opportunity to teach your child to do the right thing by others and to consider how those children might feel .

My child when younger had a fascination with children that seemed naughty. He pulled the leaves off a plant that he knew was precious to me on purpose encouraged by the other child. I still taught him the consequences of his behaviour and that I was upset he had broken something of mine. He didn’t bully other children but he did stand by as one of his naughty friends was mean to another of his friends. It gave the opportunity to discuss the hurt child’s feelings and we discussed maintaining a friendship in the face of the other child’s meanness. He is 11 now and has a good grasp of accountability.

If you stay in denial of your own childs culpability you will do him a disservice. He needs clear guidance not excuses.

TedAndLola · 28/11/2018 18:47

Just imagine, in a parallel universe, there really was a boy who was usually lovely, but he was actually being influenced and under the power of another boy who got him him trouble, got him to pick on kids, got him to do things that made him sad and his mummy very worried.

What would the advice then be? And how would the OP be able to pursuade posters this was true?

I'd say "Complain to the lizard overlords, get Ethan's mind control powers rescinded and reprogramme your son."

But back in this universe, where Ethan doesn't have magical powers and the OP's son is making his own choices...

Swipe left for the next trending thread