The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

I haven’t said no-one should be demonising Ethan. Both children are behaving awfully and they are both responsible for their own part in it.
The op has said she’s going to carry on as she has been doing with wishy washy role play and no consequences. That’s not stepping up in my opinion. That’s expecting the teacher to sort it by only letting him near good kids.

The Op said several times she was going to do more, and be firmer, and had taken note of what people had said.

And sometimes a ‘pile on’ is justified when an op refuses to see reason despite 99% of posters saying the same thing.
This is a grown adult who has come on here courting for opinions and reading them on a screen that they can disengage from at any time.
Maybe spare a thought for the 6yo dealing with face to face bullying that they can’t get away from that the op is failing to address before you get your violin out about an adult being disagreed with online!

If you read the last post she said she’s carrying on as she was.

And ignoring all the ‘bullies’ (people speaking common sense).

Six year olds can be very silly and feed off each other. You have identified that your sons behavior deteriorates when around Ethan. I have a boy of similar age who has been in trouble once or twice for things I would have thought were totally out of character. But, even if it was someone else's idea he did it. We told him off for poor choices, and I have talked to him about following his conscience. Helping them make the right choices and identify who is a good friend will protect against the influence of all future 'Ethans' better than asking the teacher to keep friends apart....

@steppemum
*

My DS is not what you think and I am proud of who he is. I am proud of how hard he tried with his behaviour last year and I believe in him and believe he can do that again. I will step up and work hard to get him back on track because I love him and I know he can do it. He will be ok.*

She's proud of who he is, despite making another child's life unpleasant!

Still not accepting that her child is in the wrong.......

In OP's last post, after you had all told her her ds was a little shit, she finished with:

I will step up and work hard to get him back on track because I love him and I know he can do it.

and last year, she said he DID NOT have any of those issues, so yes of course she should be proud of that! And try to get back to that situation.

and last year, she said he DID NOT have any of those issues, so yes of course she should be proud of that! And try to get back to that situation.

And stop blaming Ethan?

Ok - let me state the following ...

1. My son did not behave simply because he was surrounded by positive influencing peers last year. The whole class is a little lively and DS managed not only to stay away from Ethan (with the teachers support in not sitting them right next to each other - please bare in mind he was 5/6 last year, not 16), but also to be one of the best behaved kids in he class (as a result in large part from not being under Ethans influence, and in part from trying super super super hard to resist temptation and to behave as well as can be. The teachers were v proud of him and so was I. The teachers also saw that while my DS was exceptionally well behaved last year when he was free of Ethans influence, Ethan continued to cause trouble, bully, and influence others to do mean things (yes, it's not just my DS that this child influences)

1. My son hasn't bullied anyone and I never said he had. He has been mean a couple of times under Ethans influence. He was wrong to say mean words and he has apologised. He feels bad. We have all at some point said things which have not been kind. Other kids in his class (who are nice kids! Not bullies!) have also been known to occasionally say mean things... He is 7 and learning. I know my son and I know he would not have been saying mean things if he had not been with Ethan. That's a fact. I understand though that I can't use Ethan as an excuse and need to teach DS to resist peer pressure and to try and make his own choices and to make sure he acts kindly even when pressured by others not to. He's 7. He's working on it. I am working on it with him and I came on mumsnet for advice as I recognise I'm not getting it right. I know now from everyone's advice, to emphasise personal responsibility more and I will.

1. My son is not seen by others (school, kids or parents) as a bully (he is only seeen that way by mumsnetters that have never met or spoken to him). School do not have a problem with his behaviour. He is popular with other kids in the class and I have heard nice things from parents about what their DC have said about him at home.

1. My son is not horrid. He is not a bully. I do not have blinkers on! None of you know him!!! And nor do you know Ethan! I'm sorry, but Ethan is an influencer and he does bully. It's not his fault as his parents are less than helpful and he repeats words at school (which begin with F, C and other interesting letters) he's heard at home. He also probably acts as he does from what he's seen at home. I don't like his influence on my son, which is why I asked mumsnet for help. I know my son needs to learn to say no to Ethan, to avoid peer pressure and to take responsibility for his own actions. We are working on it. He is 7. He is struggling with managing this other child's influence. And I am struggling to guide him away from this child. We will get there!

1. I have listened to advice and I am trying to take it! I am still mulling over what's been said and I fully acknowlegde I need to encourage DS to take more responsibility. Thank you! That's been a good tip!

1. There are some people on this thread who are less than helpful and way more bullying than my beautiful son will ever be. There are also some lovely posters on here who have challenged me nicely and given feedback and advice without digging and being hostile and making me feel crap. Thanks to them

So, I disagree with you, and I get:
before you get your violin out about an adult being disagreed with online!

@FroggyLoggy but you say in OP that your son was constantly in trouble...... now you seem to be saying it's not a serious issue? but you say after the start of this year already (2 months on?) he's started being mean?

I'm retiring from this thread as I'm the mother of a bullied child and the OPs kind of shit about "but he's lovely" after saying he wax i copious amount of trouble and two months into a school year is reverting and being mean just doesn't make sense! What's he going to be like by Easter?

But hey, let's blame Ethan!

I am proud of how hard he tried with his behaviour last year and I believe in him and believe he can do that again. I will step up and work hard to get him back on track because I love him and I know he can do it.

Well good, showing your confidence that your son can accept consequences for his actions and will learn to improve his behaviour even around Ethan will be good for him. It isn't being "harsh" or shaming him to to call your son on his bad behaviour and to impose consistent consequences for it. Shame by itself has not been enough to stop him doing it, and if he feels ashamed of himself then some short-term loss of privilege from you will probably make him feel better. He did wrong, he takes the consequences and learns from it, you both move on.

As for the pile-on, you nailed your colours to the mast in the title of your post and everyone who sees that title is going to read that in your mind the big problem is the other boy. Even if you've somewhat changed your mind (and it's not really clear if you have or not) that title is not going to do you any favours.

I'm sorry, but Ethan is an influencer and he does bully.

Every time you say this kind of thing, a red mist comes down in front of my eyes and probably other people's too. You are so very willing to label Ethan and so totally unwilling to label your own child.

I'm sorry you feel piled-up-on but did you never hear the saying, when you are in a hole stop digging?

Sona...

He was getting in lots of trouble with Ethan in reception (when he was 4). He was fine through all of year 1. Now I am starting to worry because he's said a few mean things to people when around Ethan and is playing with him again and I don't want things to deteriorate.

I just want Ethan to have less power over him! But I'll take the tip about responsibility and a few other tips and jog on.

Yes I love my son. Yes I think he's great. Yes I see his positives. Yes I want to make sure he stays away from bad influences and behaves nicely. Yes I don't like it when he says mean things. Yes I want to encourage him back to how he was in yet 1. Does this make me so bad?

*year 1. Not yet 1. Sorry for typo

Also - can someone please explain why I am not allowed to think that someone is a bad influence on my child? This is really confusing me!?

@FroggyLoggy well teach your son not to behave like Ethan then!

Please stop saying he behaves and gets into trouble is mean because of Ethan! He's doing this because he's doing it!

Do you think Ethan's parents are saying he is naughty and mean because that's just him or are they blaming his peers, he's shy, he will grow our of it blah blah...

You also safe Ethan is I dry safeguarding issues..... how the hell do you know that?

You also say that you wanted to move your child out of school at age 4 because of Ethan and now you're saying that your son was only 4 (like it's no big deal at 4!).

So you want us to say that Ethan at 4 had the ability to turn your son into an unpleasant child. But your son at 4 was to young to be able to stop it?

STOP BLONG ETHAN!

And why does everyone want me to think my son is bad and naughty and nasty and a bully? No good comes of viewing your child like that. If you view your child like that, that is what they will become. So sad.

It's slightly concerning that you are labelling another small boy, aged 7 presumably, the same age as your DS, "an influencer and a bully". Why does your DS get all the allowances made for him and not poor Ethan who seems to come from a family with parents perhaps less involved than you are (which is fantastic that you are, by the way, and your son is lucky to have you)?

Just something to think about. I think a lot of the harsher posts here are by posters who have reacted to your wording in your original post and your view of the situation.

And your last post. You have utterly contradicted yourself. You have labelled Ethan as nasty and a bully, and now you are saying it is wrong to view a child like that. Or did you just mean "your" child?

I am not getting at you honestly, I am just trying to ask you to have an open mind when it comes to Ethan as well as your son!

Why can I not think another child is a bad influence on mine????? I don't get it!!!! He IS a bad influence on my son!! It's a fact!!!! And I have asked for advice on tying to deal with it!!

*STOP BLAMING ETHAN!

yes you can say that your son can be influenced at age 4 because he is too young to stand up for himself! But others (like me) will say a 4 year old is too young to influence another 4 year old!

Anyway I said I was leaving this post before and I am now! Can't stand someone defending their child being mean to another child!

As I have said before - I feel sorry for Ethan. I get why he is as he is. If I was in another role (his teacher for example), I'd want to help him! But right now, I just want to help my son not to be influenced by him. Because I love my son!!!! It's not that i don't care about Ethan and feel sorry for him - but I can't help him and that's for his parents and the school and social workers to sort! My problem is trying to help my son not be influenced by him ....

Froggy please answer me one question: why is it ok to call Ethan a bully but not your son? If they are both doing the same thing.