The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

@Perfectpanda11 OPS son is lovely it's Ethan.... ask the child OPs son was mean to.... I'm sure he'll say the same!

Because they are not doing the same thing.

Ethan (who I feel sorry for, and don't blame him for his actions - I understand his context), is influencing my son and other children to act badly. He has a hold over children. He uses bad language. He gets kids to do stuff for him. He instigates and others follow. It is different to lead than to follow. I want my son not to follow. If he was leading, that would be a whole other kettle of fish

And actually perfectpanda, I think you have helped me understand why everyone is digging at me now. I guess this distinction wasn't made clear. I thought it was, but I guess it wasn't.

If my DS was the one instigating, leading, coming up with the decisions to misbehave and influencing others, then I can definitely see why people would not see him as the sweet boy I know. However, he would never in a million years think to instigate meanness, or use foul words or influence others to carry out poor behaviour. And I wish he wasn't led into behaviours by Ethan.

I'm sorry if people think I'm demonising Ethan. I do genuinely feel sorry for him, but at the same time I can't help but see him as the person who is (through no fault of his own) ruining my sons school experience for him. Which is why I probably don't sound that sympathetic

If you don't deal with this now at this age, how will you deal with it when he is 17 and possibly has another Ethan in his life - only this time he's not being mean to other children but could be into drugs or carry a weapon or petty crime etc. What are you going to do then? The police won't give a damn if he was influenced by Ethan.

This is the biggest issue I see. You say Ethan is ruining your son's school experience. No. Your son is ruining his own school experience. If you do not teach your child that he is in charge of his own decisions he will never learn to be responsible. You say you feel sorry for Ethan, but frankly I feel a little sorry for your ds. You clearly love him and want what's best for him (no one is disputing that) but your inability to see him as making his own choices independent of Ethan will make it very hard for him to correct. It doesn't mean your ds is bad or awful, but he's making bad choices and that is all on him.

This has been one of the most frustrating threads I’ve ever read. Can you tell us exactly what your son has said/done to get into trouble?

Silver - thats exactly why I posted! I wanted help in knowing how to deal with him being influenced by Ethan as I've been at a loss :( and I have had a few helpful suggestions

Rachelle - I know this now! This is what people have been telling me on this thread And I have said that I take that feedback on board and will try and instill more responsibility and encourage him to take more responsibility for his actions!

Fadehead - I will give you an example of something I witnessed very recently:

Ethan - "come on Froggyson, let's climb over the wall"

Me: Froggson, please don't do that. We are going home now. Say goodbye to Ethan.

Ethan: Froggyson, don't listen to your mum, come on ....

Froggyson and Ethan start climbing wall

Me: Froggyson, get off that wall now please.

Froggyson gets off wall and apologises.

Another example - when dropping DS at school classroom. Ethan sees paint pots set out for the day aheads activity I presume. Ethan runs over to paint, puts both hands in paint bowls and runs up to Froggyson, chasing him with paint covered hands. Froggyson runs away and around the classroom not wanting to get covered in paint. Teacher comes over and tells both boys off and asks them to sit down please.

'I wanted help in knowing how to deal with him being influenced by Ethan as I've been at a loss'
I think what is so infuriating is that you're looking for help for the wrong thing. Stop attributing your son's behaviour to being influenced by Ethan as 'fact'. Your son who I'm sure you think is lovely etc etc has behaved badly. What you want is help in knowing how to deal with him behaving badly and in encouraging him to make the right decisions in terms of how he should behave. You want him to be more pleasant to other children, to not be rude, to not engage in dangerous behaviour etc etc. You need to get past blaming someone else's influence and focus on your son making better decisions and having better self-control. It doesn't mean he's 'bad', he has been behaving badly, end of.

If you are stood right there and your kid does something naughty/silly you have to deal with YOUR kid.

Neither of my DSs would have dared ignored me and climbed on the wall after I said no, regardless of what their mate wanted.

In the second example if you are right there what did YOU do to stop YOUR son running around?

Ethan is irrelevant. As lots of people have already said, there will always be an Ethan and if your son thinks that you will always take this approach then he will learn that his behaviour is always someone else's fault.

He has to learn to control himself. You can help him do that, there isn't really anything you can do about Ethan.

But if you move your son to a different school then he's likely to meet other 'Ethans'.

He's going to meet many more 'Ethans' through life.

I think it's critical that you deal with this now.

Why does your son want to be friends with 'Ethan'?

But right now, I just want to help my son not to be influenced by him.

I know you didn’t like my post earlier but I hope you listen to what follows.

You want your son not to be influenced by Ethan. Good. Now, how do you think that happens? It happens by you making your son believe that Ethan has no power over him. How do you make your son believe that? By telling him his actions are all his own choice. If he believes his actions are his own choice when doing the wrong thing, he will work out that they are also his own choice when doing the right thing. By continuing to blame Ethan you are removing your son’s power over himself. If he constantly hears that it is ethans fault he was naughty, he will believe Ethan has a power over him that he has no say in. This is not a belief you want to foster in a young child. You need to empower your son to make the right choices and you do that by showing him that his choices are all his own. All his choices, the good and the bad. You praise him don’t you when he behaves well? Because you see that he made a good choice. You don’t praise his teacher for being a good influence, or his friends who play nicely for rubbing off on him, do you? You praise him directly. The same applies when he makes the wrong choice, the responsibility for that is his and you do him a great disservice to credit Ethan with it all. Your son will believe Ethan is in charge of him.

"Neither of my DSs would have dared ignored me and climbed on the wall after I said no, regardless of what their mate wanted."

And neither would Froggyson until he met Ethan, and he only does this with Ethan. Ethan holds a lot of power for a little person :) (he will maybe make a good politician in the future!)

Istandwithposie - that makes sense and I take the advice

And please, as uncomfortable as it may be to do, keep an eye on your tendency to place yourself/your child as the victim of the story. It comes through very strongly on this thread, right from your title. We all know someone for whom it’s always someone else’s fault they got in trouble. The one who springs to mind immediately for me has just been released from prison for assault. He was innocent of course. The victim goaded him and the judge had it in for him is the official line he and his family have taken. An extreme example of course but I know of others and it’s just cringeworthy to hear them blame all but themselves for everything. Don’t let yourself become that. Don’t let your DS become that.

It's difficult when you have a follower. In your example with the wall what consequence did you issue for your son disobeying you? You see if it was my son I would have told him sharply that he hadn't followed my instruction and so as a consequence he was to stand right next to me in the playground that instant and on the walk home and because he couldn't be trusted to do as he was told he wouldn't be (going to an activity that evening/playing on his computer game/ whatever he would usually enjoy) I wouldn't have mentioned Ethan at all.

Myshinywhiteteeth - this (why he wants to be friends with Ethan) is something husband and I discussed at length tonight. We think it's partly that they like all the same stuff (football, running, bugs), are similar level academically, and also that they share the same cultural background and look pretty similar, so I think DS feels a connection with Ethan. DS likes all the kids in his class and is quite popular, but he doesn't really click with the other boys and he is very boy orientated, so wouldn't really choose to be friends with the girls. Most of DS's friends are in other classes in the year. I do wonder if another school might be better for him friends-wise and we r still considering moving him.

You will get Ethan's anywhere

Your child is a type Ethan's will gravitate to

My child is like yours... he's not a bully at heart, he's easily led... NO if he is doing any bullying HE is being a bully. I don't love him any less for acknowledging that

My child could be Ethan too, he's had a tough start in life. Again that's not get out of jail card for HIS behaviour

It's humiliating and exhausting but I have learned- if my kid won't behave nicely to others - I follow through on consequences and make them severe enough he understands- I will comfort you when you're sad and hurt. I won't comfort you when you rightly feel ashamed of your actions to other children. Then I am very upset with you too. It's not something you get to cuddle up and have sympathy for from mummy because you say you feel bad... show your sorry by not repeating it.

If teachers tell me he's behaved well and kind he gets tons of cuddles and told how proud I am of him.

It's hard work being a parent! Good luck

So, in the first example about climbing the wall, you go exactly with what a poster wrote upthread:

You: Froggyson, come here right now. What on Earth were you doing trying to climb over that wall? You know that’s not allowed.

Froggyson: but I was only mucking about, Ethan said....

You: I don’t care what Ethan did or didn’t say. Don’t you have a mind of your own? If Ethan told you to jump off a cliff, would you?

Froggyson: no but...

You: Right! So that’s the end of it. Any more of that behaviour and there’ll be consequences for you when you get home. And don’t think I won’t find out. I’ll be asking Miss Yourteacher for a report on your behaviour when I collect you on Friday.

And repeat and follow through until it gets through. It could easily take months and months and months.

This has NOTHING to do with Ethan. One day it’s Ethan. The next day it’ll be Daniel with some other kind of influence. When he gets a girlfriend/boyfriend, they’re a distracting bad influence. This is about YOU teaching YOUR son what acceptable behaviour looks like, no matter what. 7 is plenty old enough to understand consequences, and to know what the right choices are.

Don’t move him. You’re missing out on teaching your DS a vital life lesson. Honestly, you could teach DS primary reading, science, and maths etc. but you send him to school to learn how to operate in wider society too.

There’ll always be temptations in life but we have to make our own choices and then accept the consequences.
Your DS should be learning this in a simple, clear way from you now.

Of course a DC would rather run off and do something fun and slightly illicit with an exciting friend than walk home nicely with mum.
It’s our job to show them why this is a bad idea with a clear boundary and consequence for breaking it.

It won’t change overnight but it’s really important your lovely boy learns that his actions will have repercussions and that he will have to live with them.

Make sure he learns it now, in small ways (missing out on fun activities) before the world teaches it to him very harshly.

You sound like a lovely caring parent but you will let your DS down if you don’t show him that negative choices have negative consequences.

If your DS has been unkind to other children then people will feel upset with you for not tackling it more directly. They’re not trying to attack you personally.

You're making you and your son out to be victims and yet again shifting blame. If your kid doesn't listen to you then that's not another child's fault, grow a back bone for gods sake.

So you walk over and pull him off the wall if necessary and then he gets a punishment for disobeying you.

Again, Ethan is irrelevant. YOU told HIM not to climb on the wall.

Why can I not think another child is a bad influence on mine????? I don't get it!!!! He IS a bad influence on my son!! It's a fact!!!

Ethan isn't responsible for your son's actions.
Your son is responsible for his actions.

Why is it acceptable to call Ethan a bully for behaviour that both Ethan and your son were involved in, but anyone saying your son has been bullying is a a bully?

As long as you keep the view of 'but Ethan is a bad influence... I'll work with my child to encourage them to ignore Ethan...' then DC will learn that there's always going to be a convenient scapegoat.

Ethan is irrelevant. The message needs to be 'I love you and you can make kind and positive choices. When you make poor choices or choose to be unkind then there will be consequences'. No mention of Ethan.