To think that parents who don't vaccinate their children are despicable

[LaBelleSauvage]

Just that. And I think they ought to be sanctioned in some way similar to in Australia. Children shouldn't suffer because of parents' stupidity

best look at autoimmunity, allergies, asthma, cancers for a start. ALL increasing. Even in childhood. And no one knows why. Mmmmm, I wonder. Let’s look at lifestyle, diet, environmental exposures and - what’s the other big change - vaccines.

" it’s scary just how many vaccinations there are now in the standard schedule compared to back then."
Scary? Bloody amazing

I know a couple of families who genuinely can't fully vaccinate because of allergies and reactions. They wish their kids were healthy enough to vaccinate. They are so worried about their kids catching illnesses because even a bad cold can hospitalise their children. Flu could kill them.

I also know a rabid anti vaxer (who I limit contact with and have unfriended on arsebook) because of the drivel she spreads. She won't immunise against measles but will happily stab herself in the face with botulism.

Genuine question.

I am absolutely not an anti-vaxer, I think it’s disgusting to put your child at risk like that, but when having this debate with my friend she asked when I last had my booster injections with a smug smile and I didn’t have an answer.

Is not having boosters the same as not vaccinating a child?

I think people who don’t vaccinate in this country have no bloody idea how very, very lucky they are to have the option to do so (and it’s free).

I agree, OP. I think it’s incredibly low.

@BifsWif looking at the NHS schedule there is t anything between 14 and 65 unless you go abroad, pregnant, pay privately for flu jab etc
Could be wrong though if anyone finds dsonethibg different.

My eyesight was damaged because of measles. I don't have much clarity of vision in one eye, and the other isn't great. I will eventually be completely blind. The measles vaccination didn't exist when I was a child. I made sure my two were vaccinated.

lilyblue thank you!!

YANBU.

How do anti-vaxxers travel? Do they just holiday at home and never travel anywhere in the world that requires vaccinations? Or is that somehow different?
DH was very seriously ill last year with a communicable, notifiable disease. I was put into the care of Public Health England, was serum tested and vaccinated within 48 hrs of his diagnosis. The doctor in charge was very kind to me but very clear that I didn't have much say in the matter- it was not only for my own protection but the whole community. DH almost died. That's the reality for people who can't be vaccinated against "everyday" diseases never mind the nasty unusual ones that he had.

I'm definitely not an anti vaxxer. What does annoy me though, is that the single mumps vaccine isn't available. My first son had an awful reaction to the mmr, really bad, don't want to go into it (not autism related), so I decided to spread the mmr out with my subsequent children, except I find out that to stop you from doing that (why?) you no longer can. Now my other 2 children are unvaccinated against mumps. It worries me a lot. I sometimes wonder if I could go and have the mmr in a few years now that they're vaxxed against measles and rubella so it shouldn't be too much of a "shock to the system".
Anyway, I am rambling, just something I worry about when I see "anti anti vaxxer" things as I wish I could comfortably get the mumps vaccine.

If there was a booster programme for adult immunisations there'd be reminders from the NHS and there aren't. Flu is the only one I can think of, and all target groups do get invited to have that one (my husband, for example, on grounds of (a) asthma and (b) cardiovascular problems; my parents, on grounds of age; me - no risk factors yet, so no invite).

Not sure they even expect us to get tetanus updated every ten years as used to be the case.

Re the increase in children with allergies - I surmise (and that's all it is, because I'm not a medic or a scientist or an epidemiologist) that one reason certain genetic conditions are on the increase is because people carrying those genes have lived to have children of their own and transmit those genes. A generation or two ago they'd very likely have died in infancy or reached adulthood in such poor health that having children would be out of the question. Asthma, for example - still a very serious life-threatening condition, but most people can manage it with good monitoring and steroids as required. Type I diabetes - a century ago people died from that.

Anti vaxxers are like flat earthers, gullible, and not very intelligent. Except the people who believe in a flat earth don’t actually put lives at risk.

A child in DDs class has just been in hospital with complications from mumps. She has a very poor immune system, the vaccine didn’t work for her. She caught mumps off a person not vaccinated, probably at soft play (according to her mum). Thankfully none of the other children in the school got ill, but those whose babies hadn’t had the MMR yet were very worried.

My step mum is deaf because she caught measles as a girl.

Any parent willing to risk death, infertility and deafness on their own kids and those of their peers, really do not need to be sympathised with.

I do think that if every school had a couple of kids in it who were disabled by polio and a couple more who disappeared into an iron lung, attitudes towards vaccinations would be different among anti-vaxers.

Anecdata, obviously, but our former neighbours had an unvaccinated child and he was ill a lot more often than my vaccinated kids.

I do think vaccines can, in some (mercifully rare) instances, cause damage. (The cases around the HPV vaccine do worry me and I will be keeping an eye on those developments). I do think it would be worthwhile finding out why and how vaccine damage happens and, eventually, individualising vaccination schedules for those children who are currently being offered an all-or-nothing approach. But blanket scaremongering is not appropriate and has consequences at least as grim as the scenarios they are conjuring.

We delayed dc1's second MMR and gave dc2 single measles followed by MMR because we were concerned about the smallness of the gap recommended here (Germany) and in dc2's specific case about him having had ABs when very very young. We also turned down the rotavirus vaccine for dd. But otherwise we decided the case for full vaccination (incl the Men B which isn't on the schedule here and which I do think, from an inexpert look at the data, will probably prove not to provide very long immunity and will need a booster introducing later on) was more emphatic. I don't like the implication on the part of some anti-vaxers that those who vaccinate are blind sheep.

Beaverhausen - I'm sorry for your sister's loss. Do you mean mercury or aluminium?

With mercury/thiomersal the WHO could find no substantive evidence that in the low doses contained in vaccinations it caused any harm at all. Aluminium is used in vaccines, but again the amount is very low and is similar to the amount found in a litre of baby formula. It's also found in many foods and vegetables and breastmilk!

I suspect maybe the studies that you read at the time were very new or highly biased. It may be time to re-read and possibly think about vaccinating your children to keep them safe.

You only need the booster once. Things like Hep B boosters depend on your job. Tetanus, you get if you present with a wound and they check if you’ve had one or not. If not you get it there and then. When I worked at sea I had to have all my vaccines up to date plus other ones for abroad. No MMR in my day. Aren’t a lot of 35+ adults catching mumps etc now because it wasn’t on the vaccine schedule in the 80s?

I ‘travel’ but I haven’t actually travelled outside of Europe, so vaccinations aren’t required.

FlamingJuno is that really a thing though? I'm mid 30s and have never been anywhere I've needed travel vaccinations for (though I have been abroad). Maybe I'm just leading a boring life

I mean, I know travel vaccinations are a thing, but us it really so unusual to not go to places that need them?

i think its controversial but ultimately their choice, i dont think my child will catch the plague off an unvaccinated child

staydazzling, RTFT. The huge risk is to children and adults with compromised immunse systems and to very young babies who haven't yet been immunised.

If a child who could have been immunised isn't and catches one of these infectious diseases and then passes it onto a vulnerable person, that person could die or end up with permanent disabilities.

Don't we have a responsibility to look beyond our own families when we take these decisions? We live in a community.

@staydazzling

That's because thanks to the luxury of herd immunity, unvaccinated children are very likely to catch TB, rubella, polio etc (pretty sure we don't vaccinate for the plague) and therefore your child will not catch it from them.

Parents are (unfortunately) free to make the totally misguided and usually flat out wrong decision not to vaccinate their children. But they must face the fact that they are putting their child and others at risk, and while most will get away with it without catching anything serious, this is only because the vast majority of parents DO vaccinate. Herd immunity is a wonderful luxury that most antivaxxers seem to ignore. 'My child isn't vaccinated and has never caught measles!'. Why do you think this is??

The herd immunity is what makes it particularly selfish I think. Like their extra special children don't have to risk any side effects because most people do and thus the risks of them catching anything are lower than if no-one vaccinated.

Maybe parents who don't vaccinate think you are stupid?

My kids are vaccinated but I understand people who don't........they believe that it's wrong. It's their right. To have a blanket rule of vaccination is like fascism.