Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

I think its the perfect opportunity to explain the full extend of LD's uselessness.

I think I'd be inclined to pay, but point out at the same time that LD hasn't contributed EVER and that this is a total one off because of that.

Here's an idea... if they can't afford to fund this surprise trip next march, why not put it off until the following year so they can save up the amount to take DS too.

One more year won't make a difference...

shamalawa I would send back a response along the lines of what ArghhhWhatToDo sent when HER deadbeat Ex DW tried the same.
and possibly a judgy dig about living within their means as you have had to do on ZERO maintenance...

I would start by having a conversation with Ds not about the holiday but how he feels about lazydad and his lack of involvement and how much he wants or is interested in his wider family on that side. If the result is he's not bothered I'd just drop it.
If he makes noises about it I would explain what has been offered but that it's extremely awkward financially because the plans are potentially very flaky. But as a family in a couple of years why not go together and in the meantime start making email/phone links with the wider family but outside of doing it via lazydad and Kim.
I would in no circumstances do it in the current format suggested by Kim - very inappropriate given lazydads uselessness.

I was just scrolling back through my messages to LD to see when exactly he had him. 4 days out of his 8 week summer hols, 1 night in Feb and 2 nights in May. I had asked him if he wanted to have him a couple of days longer in the summer hols and he replied no because he was going to Cyprus the next day.

He really has always taken the piss and been useless and I've just let him :( I've enabled him and now Kim is doing the same.

A couple of people have questioned why I didn't apply for child maintenance when I left him and honestly to start with it was the guilt - he was earning very little and I was leaving with his son so felt so bad.
Of course that's no excuse now.

Yes, Yes, Yes. Why wouldn't you pay for the flight? Fabulous opportunity for your DS. SO what if his dad has been poor/ low-paid and hasn't contributed. Don't take that out on the kid.

And now they continue to take the piss.
No cms but can afford holidays! Where have you afforded op? Barbados? Cyprus?
Or have you been providing for your ds? Ring cms today. No excuses.

For everyone saying how does DS feel... he doesn't know. It's a suprise for his dad.

@ArghhhWhatToDo
Very cheeky indeed of the DW. Your response was fantastic.

Too many women enable such men.

it's never been about what you could afford OP, it was about his Dad contributing to his upbringing, you should have made the Claim, you still could, but I'd definitely say NO to the brass necked ask. The pair of them are taking the Piss, I bet he KNOWS about the trip but under the guise of a lovely surprise they're doing this. What surprises has he ever produced for his SON ?

ZILCHO

In your circumstances I would pay for DS’ flight, purely because I think it would be a good experience for him and great for him to meet extended family.

However I would be very clear with Kim about the situation. I would say something like “this sounds like a lovely idea, I’m grateful to you for including DS and I’m keen for him to meet his extended family, so DH and I are willing to pay for his flight so he can go. However, I’m not sure whether you know, but ExH has never paid any child support towards DS so it does sting a bit that we are now being asked to contribute financially towards his time with DS. I should be clear now that we won’t be providing any further money for food, accommodation, spending, clothes etc whilst you’re out there and we would also like to help pick the flights to make sure we’re getting the best deal possible. Sorry to spring this information on you, as of course this is not your fault in any way, but I’m sure you understand it’s tough for my DH to not only fund DS when he’s with us all but also when he’s with you and ExH”

That way your son can go but you’ve made your position clear

I'm thinking along same lines as @californiascreaming. I came on to suggest that YOUR family (DS, you, DH) do the Barbados trip yourselves, instead of sending DS with Lazydad. If Lazydad has rarely seen his son, imagine how awkward/intense it will be for 24 hours a day for the duration of the holiday? Not a holiday I would choose. In the meantime, as @californiascreaming suggests, reach out to that extended family to make contact and set up the meetings.

As for Kim, I'd say that given you'll be paying for DS's flights, you became inspired to do the family trip together and be able to fully support DS in his journey to meeting his extended family who he doesn't know. (plus also be honest and say that you doubt that Lazydad and DS would have a great holiday together, given they hardly know each other)

This is all on the basis that DS actually wants to meet his Barbados family, of course...

Sorry if I’ve missed this but has lazydad had more children with Kim?

Has DS ever been away with his father before?

Mega difficult. If you do pay, please don’t load up DS with info on who paid for what.

I’m SM to three SDCs who have evidently absorbed EVERYTHING their long-divorced DM and DF have bitched said about money and now the DC’s habit to attribute monetary value to everything is SO SAD a child shouldn’t be thinking about what they’re worth and to whom in pounds and pence 😔

Hell would freeze over before I paid.

Be careful OP, I’ve tread a similar path in the past. Your DH may not always be so tolerant of this situation. Think about your family first. Besides, why on earth would you even think about paying for a flight for your son to meet relatives that haven’t shown any interest in his existence.

I’m not falling for the lovely Kim either....

Don’t do it OP.

Sorry if I’ve missed this but has lazydad had more children with Kim?

No

You have enabled it and you should have claimed CMS, at least DS would now be able to go on this trip, without needing to ask your DH and meet the other half of his Family.

I don't think that this is the issue to get tough on. 14 is an awkward age and this trip is more than a holiday.

After this, do what you should have done, claim CMS, that way if DH resents paying for something, your DS can be funded from that pool of money. Then make it clear that it's a one off.

It's a shame that your DS hasn't already been and met his Family.

Initially I thought this would be a great experience for your DC but you don’t have any details and actually he may hate it if he is shacked up in a cramped accommodation, possibly on the sofa with people that he has never met. At that age I would have hated that.
I wouldn’t fund this

Kim isn't lovely, she's a manipulative CF. Notice how she suggested the holiday and only when you had agreed to it, did she spring the money thing on you.

I have been in your partner's situation and had to support a stepchild whose other parent paid no maintenance, so I really feel for him and think it would be an ask too far to expect him to pay for these flights. The situation had a lasting impact on my and DH's relationship. As others have said, will your DS actually feel part of the family and enjoy this trip anyway or will he feel like an outsider?

"Oh and I've been on at LD for months to ask you if we can have DS for Xmas this year, has he asked you yet?"

Why on earth would it even enter her head that you'd give up your Christmas with your child, when his LD can't even be arsed to ask about it?

@Sisterlove thanks, I got a text not long after I posted that from his DW saying that they she will consider the £250 and speak to EXs parents. They have never met my DD only face-timed with her and DW suspects they will pay for her flight.

She was actually really understanding and was not aware that her DH had never contributed to DD.

For all those who are saying the OP should have claimed it really is hard when you are in that position. Everyone's circumstances are different and the fact he knew she was not claiming and failed to offer anyway says more about him than her.

Agree with @Notthatsimple on this point, my stepchildren used to be obsessed with who paid for what and what it cost due to their mum doing an awesome job of parental alienation.

I'm in a bit of a reverse to the posters on here, no children of my own but earn more than my DH and any extras for the stepchildren come from my pocket more often than not.

Their mum used to refuse to send the children on any school trips despite more than generous maintenance + extras from us. We didn't even have the chance to discuss options, it was a flat "no". We pay for those where reasonable now, and there's a good status quo now where their mum comes to us with any unexpected expenses and we go halves.

But we would never, ever, interfere with her holiday plans and she doesn't with ours. And we've never been asked to contribute.

I’m SM to three SDCs who have evidently absorbed EVERYTHING their long-divorced DM and DF have bitched said about money and now the DC’s habit to attribute monetary value to everything is SO SAD sad a child shouldn’t be thinking about what they’re worth and to whom in pounds and pence 😔

I think OP's situation is very different to yours, this DAD has paid NOTHING forever.

I have been in your partner's situation and had to support a stepchild whose other parent paid no maintenance, so I really feel for him and think it would be an ask too far to expect him to pay for these flights.

Haha I keep banging on about that as well, because I can imagine how resentful I'd feel in that situation - no matter how much I loved the child. I'd feel taken advantage of.

I didn't apply for child maintenance when I left him and honestly to start with it was the guilt ... Of course that's no excuse now

Okay, so how about this for a solution: Apply to CMS now, tell Kim what you're doing and explain that the money will be put aside for DS to fly to Barbados with them once there's enough

If Kim's as lovely as you say she is, she'll be horrified at what she just learned about her DP. If, on the other hand, she defends his non-payment or even takes the attitude "well you can afford it", you might need to revisit your assessment of her ... because frankly, I'm struggling to see what a lovely woman would see in a deadbeat like him at all

I wouldn't, but if you do end up paying for the flight, I'd take out travel insurance for ds too in case Kim doesn't sort that. Really she shouldn't book if she can't afford it.

I'm beginning to wonder if Kim has no idea that LD is not paying maintenance because he claims that is why he has no money and she has to pay for stuff?

tbh, I believe Kim does know and is being manipulative because she phrased the text exchange to sucker the OP (and I think it was important to her to get the commitment in writing for her own reasons).