Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

I’d say it’s a lovely idea Kim, but I don’t have an income, therefore dp pays for everything for ds. I wouldn’t feel comfortable thenasking my dh to pay for my son to pay for a holiday with my ex - for me it would exceed cheekiness.

Kim isn't lovely, she's a manipulative CF. Notice how she suggested the holiday and only when you had agreed to it, did she spring the money thing on you

Glad I'm not the only one who picked up on that. There's also this: DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of ... DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees

So I'm wondering two things: How long will it be before DH starts to question his own generosity / general role in this? And how "lovely" would Kim continue to be if the money dried up?

Is it really such a wonderful opportunity for your DD? To be that far away from you for 2 weeks with two people he barely knows (even though one is his father) meeting a lot of strangers, even if they are “family”? Have any of them reached out to him in the past?

It could be quite a lonely and isolating trip for him particularly if he sees his father bonding with his Barbados family making him wonder why he’s never been like that with him for the past decade.

Does Kim know LD has never paid anything?

Gosh. That is tricky.
Part of me feels that it would be a shame for him to miss out. But would it really? I think before you know it it will be spending money and other things. I think on balance I would give it a swerve. It will be a lot cheaper for them to go outside school hols and so I would combine the " I have no independent income and as lazy fecker has never given me a penny" with " your money will go much further outside school hols and without ds, hope you have a great time"

I honestly think this would be a massive slap in your dh's face to be honest

Reply with what ivyKaty44 said above. Pointing out that they're effectively asking your now husband to subsidise your ex partner's holiday is worth doing.

I see the argument that the holiday benefits DS, but it's pretty clear to me that the holiday is primarily for the ex and Kim / both of them have thought of this as something which doesn't really impact on them (if you pay) but which allows him to score dad points. A fancy holiday is all very well as the icing on the cake, but it doesn't compare to genuine everyday involvement in your child's life, and it can't be a substitute for the lack of that.

Putting the money completely to one side for a moment- I would want to know a lot more about the holiday before I agreed for my son to go.

Where are they staying? What sort of things will they be doing?

Also, given the lack of shits given by LazyDad about time with his son generally- can any of you be sure that he'd even want your son to go?!

Think I'd maybe ask to meet Kim for a coffee and have an open and honest chat about all of it and go from there.

If Lazy dad cant afford the flight for DS he wont be able to afford the food prices over there. Its absolutely extortionate and unless you are local they will charge inflated prices. I lost nearly a stone in a week when I went, we just couldn't afford the food prices.
A basic meal for 1 would be about £50.00 and 3 tomatoes would be £3.00 etc.

I'd say he can go but they have to pay for the flight and prove they can afford to feed him whilst hes there.

Oh and now I've seen

Oh and I've been on at LD for months to ask you if we can have DS for Xmas this year, has he asked you yet?"

My reply would be 'No, he hasn't'. And then if she actually asks, I'd say you've made plans now so it's too late.

What about giving the plane ticket to your son as part of his Christmas present from you and his step-father but explaining he has to keep it a secret from his LD for now?

That way he knows who to thank for it and LD can't take the credit.

How often does DS see Kim?

When your DS sees your EX he sees a dead beat dad that drops him whenever he feels like it. How would it do DS any good to spend a few weeks with him?

I get the extended family bit but it takes time to build a bond, maybe get there contact details and call them so he can chat to his cousins. I have no extended family it's done me no harm.

I would not want to pay the man who has never paid a penny towards your son to take him on holiday. How many years was he in nappies for? How much did the nappies cost you? Childcare? Clothes? Food? His bedroom? Electric? Gas? School dinners? Clubs? I'm getting pretty angry so going to finish my comment now

Nope I'd respond to Kim and say

We've sat down as a family and discussed this, but I am going to have to say no to paying DS share. DS is now X years old and LazyDad has never paid anything towards his upbringing. I am not willing to start paying for LazyDad to have his soon.

The more I think about it the more I think hell no. It’s a total pisstake of your dh really for one, you need to value him as well as ds. You have no idea if it will even be any good as a holiday - hanging out with extended family of the shit dad he barely knows? Maybe he can decide to go one day. Maybe you guys can do Barbados and he can say hello, travelling with the support of his real family. But don’t enable this.

And apply for cms. No discussions. Save it for ds.

This is such a tough situation. It's hard to know if Kim i's taking the piss or genuinely wants to go on holiday as a family and really can't afford it. As the dad isn't aware of it, he can't pay anyway, though it sounds like he wouldn't if he knew.

Do you think your son would want to go a long way away from home with them if he isn't that close to them? Would he feel like he was missing out if he doesn't go or doesn't he expect to go away with his dad?

If yes I'd probably do it as a one off. It's not going to happen again and will only be a few years til he is too old for family holidays. You're not contributing to your ex's birthday (doesn't sound like he is fussed) but to your sons holiday if you think he'd really like to go. I'd chat with him about it before you book it though!

I would make it clear though that you expect them to cover all other expenses and why. Just because the ex earns less doesn't mean he doesn't get to contribute nothing at all.

I would also make it clear it's a one off. And buy insurance and also get in writing from them that if they cancel (because they are flaky) that they will reimburse the costs of the flight. Would be awful if they decided to stay to start a new job or something (or anything else not covered by insurance) and you lost out

I wouldn’t do it, not in a million years. If I could afford a trip to Barbados so easily I’d be taking DS myself rather than funding him to go with his basically deadbeat ‘dad’.

Kim may well be lovely but she is shacked up with a man who has never provided for his own son and barely ever sees him. She is now further enabling him by expecting you to pick up the tab again as you always have.

No, the answer should be no.

Also mightily takes the piss out of your DH.

I don't think it should be an issue paying for the flight for your son only when you can afford it AND it's a great opportunity that you want him to have. She's covering everything else. And it sounds like it is her money that will be paying for it not necessarily LazyDad's! I suspect accommodation activities etc will cost a lot more than the flight. Just pay it! Let him go and have a great time. Everyone's a winner! Love the ridiculously OTT responses on here. They're not asking you to fund their holiday to Barbados! Sounds like Kim paying for everything just asking for a contribution and flight seems perfectly reasonable. How nice that she wants to take your son! Don't kick a gifed horse and all that.

'Hi Kim, to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable paying for this, especially since lazydad has not paid a penny towards DS's upkeep in ten years.

I would be happy to loan the money, but I would expect lazydad to pay it back.'

Something like that maybe?

Also, contact CMS!

Sounds like you have a great husband who is not keen on forking out for this. Time to make some decisions. If you do pay for this you must put LD on child support payments then pay hubby back.

It cannot be right for one man to treat a child like his own and pay private school fees then expected to pay for him to go on hols with LD for LD's birthday.

Not impressed with Kim.

Just pay it, everyone's a winner ??? Wtf, everyone is not a winner what about op's dh? How does he win? No, I am sorry, sometimes you need to make a stand and stop someone taking the complete piss out of you and this is one of those times

It sounds as though Kim has got her own agenda in this. She's trying to build up a relationship with DS in spite of the fact that she knows LD rarely sees his son.

Sending DS gifts, hoping DS will go to them for Christmas, and now inviting him on a holiday that she can't afford.
Maybe she thinks that firm links with DS will strengthen the bond between herself and LD.

I think the holiday could be a difficult, awkward time for all of them. LD clearly has little interest in DS, why would he want to spend two long weeks with a teenager he barely knows. DS doesn't know any of them, and Kim will be piggy in the middle trying to keep every one happy. Add in an unknown family. and its a recipe for the holiday from hell.

I'd be wary of offering to lend Kim the money, you know you will never get it back.

As the dad isn't aware of it, he can't pay anyway

Strangely convenient, that, isn't it? Stops OP being able to ask him awkward questions about the money.

He has never taken him on holiday before and the first holiday they expect you to pay for?
I don't think so, that's completely wrong to ask you.
If he had a good relationship usually with your son I could understand it but in all honestly if it was me I wouldn't want to go half way round the world with someone who didn't spend any time with me.