Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

Is it going to end up where she's asking for contributions for X,y,z as well and you feel you can't say no now as you've already spent £££ on flights?

This is another issue. DH also thinks it's possible this will start a precedence. Are they going to want to take him away again next year and we will be expected to fund it?
LazyDad has never taken DS on a holiday (even when we were together). He has annual trips with Kim, they tend to be short haul (possibly funded by her) and there's never been a whisper of DS being invited to those which DH is incredulous about every year. DS has good holidays with us each year so he's not missing out BUT his dad really should have pulled his finger out a long time ago.

(Sorry, was this a drip feed?)

It’s a difficult one but I think if I could afford it comfortably and I knew the ex didn’t have a lot of money then I’d probably say yes for the sake of my son having the holiday. I would make it very clear to Kim though that the ex has paid no maintenance for him and that you are doing it for your son only.

But equally I don’t think you WBU to say no.

I think id actually say to them that you're livid to be put in the position of being the one that has to say no to him if you don't pay, and tell them that you're pretty disgusted that he and his partner haven't been able to afford to pay a penny towards his child's upkeep, yet can suddenly afford a trip to Barbados. Tell them this is a new low in the unfairness.

I might pay, but I'd bloody well make them squirm. Or take him to Barbados yourself another time. (and I'm a stepmum, so usually very pro ex husbands having contact!)

Absolutely not.

This isn't just a question of the cost of your DS's trip: there is also the issue of their being able to find money for a trip to Barbados when they pay nothing by way of maintenance. In a sense, whether she knows it or not, the only reason Kim is able to contemplate this is because they have saved a fortune at your son's and your husband's expense. I suspect also that the reality is that, given your ex's low income, as the holiday approached they'd be coming back to ask you to pay more towards other expenses and you'd feel unable to say no.

I think I'd approach this on the basis that she may not realise how little your ex has ever done for his child, so you need to explain that and say that you really don't feel you can ask your husband to continue to subsidise LazyDad.

Forget the adult relationships for the moment.

Is this trip good for DS? Is there much benefit to him in meeting relatives, etc? Is that enough reason to fund it? If so, be clear with Kim that you are paying for DS for the benefits to DS, and there will be no further supporting of their holiday/present choices.

I would do it purely for your son.

If you had the money, was still single then MAYBE but asking your DH to pay is not right. It is not a once in a lifetime thing either...at 18 he could do it in his gap year.

If they don't have the money then it's not the right time.The reality is this is for the Ex not your son.

I think your DH gets the vote here.If he is completely happy then fine, if not it doesn't happen.

How about you, DH and DS taking a holiday to Barbados at the same time. You pay for DS to go with you and ex and Kim can collect him a few days to visit family whilst you and DH have some adult time.

No way would I find exDh to take him away and play Dad of the year.

As you can afford it, I'd say yes.

You shouldn't have been asked, although I can see why new girlfriend has got a bit over excited with her idea and is just doing what she can to make it happen, but it sounds like a trip that your ds will remember for much longer than you will feel aggrieved about the principal of the thing.

It really doesn't help that it's framed as a birthday surprise for Lazy Dad rather than an opportunity for ds though! Your DH sounds brilliant btw.

I'd have a blunt conversation with Kim and say why you're concerned about the request. I wouldn't refuse to pay, but I'd make it very clear that there are limits - it's flights only, you expect everything else to be covered, and this is a once-off, not a precedent (out of fairness to your DH's concerns). I'd also tell straight out that LazyEx has never contributed to his DS - I don't see why she has to be protected from this knowledge. But ultimately, I think the trip would be a positive for DS, so I'd pay, having set the above boundaries in place.

I think in this case its a matter of putting your sons interests right at the front - and it clearly is in his best interests.

Its not fair that you have to pay etc etc - but it is what it is. I think if you don't pay you are putting your own (understandable) sense of grievance above your sons best interests.

Think of it as just you paying for your son to have a great experience!

Tough one.

Separate out the issues:

XP (Lazy Dad) has never paid a penny, but you've never chased. That has nothing to do with this situation, but can understand why you feel a bit pissed off about it.

Kim seems to be a very nice person who wants to include your DS in life in general. She's planned this lovely trip, but can't afford to pay for your son's flight.

XP isn't aware of the trip, therefore it's not HIM that's asking for the money.

You say you can afford it, and it sounds like a wonderful opportunity for your DS.

I would pay, but make it clear that this is a one-off as you don't receive any maintenance from your lazy XP.

I get why you are torn, but I would absolutely say no. No harm in saying to Kim,

"look, I know you love lazydad very much, and I'm really glad that DS has you in his life, but lazydad has never contributed a single penny to DS's upbringing or support, and has only seen him twice in 2018. We all know he's just not that fussed about his son, and even if I was still working and could afford it, I wouldn't finance a trip to Barbados so that lazydad can present a "perfect dad" fiction to his extended family, which DS has never met or been asked to meet before. It's a lovely idea, and I'm sure lazydad will be over the moon, but I can't pay for it. Thank you for trying to include DS though, I do appreciate that."

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?

It reads like she planned this and suckered you in with some fairly blatant manipulation.

You could offer to lend them the money for the flight.

Kim, I would be happy for you to deduct the money for this from the maintenance payments.

And no your child does not need the experience of seeing Lazydad pretend to be the big man in front of his family in Barbados while knowing that he has never been a proper dad to DS.

Honestly, the more I think about this the more I think no, your DS has loads of great opportunities in his life thanks to you and your DH - why on earth would you upset your DH and ask him to pay (I know it is joint household money as I am a SAHM too) towards your ex Lazydad getting to be a bigshot - and that is what this is.

Do not be blackmailed and honestly, Kim should NOT have put you in this situation.

I would explain to Kim that while it's lovely that she wants to include him and you very much appreciate how much she does for your son, you don't feel it's appropriate for you to ask your DH to support this, given that your ex has never ever paid any child support. With regret you're going to have to say no, you hope she understands, but thanks for thinking of him.

I would offer to go halves because it is a nice thing for your DS and she is including him. I wouldn't pay the whole flight even if I could afford it.

Don't do it. Sorry to Kim, but she's (as someone said upthread) supporting a man who isn't a good Dad to his own son. She needs to know that, and adjust her spending accordingly. She isn't being lovely including him, she's asking you to foot the most expensive part of the holiday. I'd tell her straight, why protect her useless DP?!

Tough one. You aren't paying for THEM to go, but for your DS to go. Galling though it is, if your DS will get to meet his DH's (probably equally lazy) family, then I would pay. But I'd also make sure it went towards DS's ticket once everything else was confirmed. And you know who'll end up paying for clothes and spending money too, don't you?

If Kim was lovely she would have been upfront straight away, rather than hooking you into the idea and then asking for money.

It can be a joint present to him if you are paying for flights, not their present.

But be very careful they don't now come back for more money, so make it clear that they have to afford everything else with the trip and that this is a one off only. My concern is they will come back closer to the time demanding more money. I bet their attitude will be that you can afford it.

I also don't like the starting point of surprising DS with a present, then saying that she can't actually afford it.

Tough one...I fall into the 'don't do it' camp due to Ex's fecklessness, and his GF lack of being upfront.

*Fund

Oh my. This is quite a tricky one.

I think that if money was not an issue you could pay for the flight. I understand that the household money is earned by your DH and can see that it's not quite so straightforward to use it in this instance.

However DS might have the best trip ever. He will be able to meet his family members and discover Barbados from those who live there.

I was in a similar position. My DS' father did pay maintenance but it dwindled over the years once he met a new partner and had more children. As did weekend contact. However I learned to just suck it up as it was making me stressed and angry.

In a couple of years or so this will all be behind you - there will be no expectation of money from ex lazy dad - and perhaps DS will really enjoy the trip.

I'd definitely have this out with Kim though- and explain that lazy dad has never contributed to DS' upbringing. She may be unaware of the extent of this.

Gosh, it is a hard one.

I think I would consult DS, find out how much he wants to go. Explain the situation to him. Could the flight be his Christmas or birthday present perhaps?

Could he work to pay any spending money needed or something?
If he really would like to go, meet family etc and you can afford it, I would treat it like a school trip, an enrichment opportunity or something.

You have to say no. Its isnt in your DS best interest for his Mum and Stepfather to continually step in where his Dad is concerned at all

If they cannot afford the holiday they cannot afford it