Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

I would actually talk it over with DS and see how he feels, about his Dad and wanting a better relationship with him, about meeting extended family, and then be prepared to pay if he really does want to go (but see if you can work it out as a loan that his dad can pay back after the surprise). Make it clear that you are funding the trip and are the reason it is possible.

If you find he just wants to go to Barbados and doesn't care about the family stuff, he's got lots of other trips lined up anyway, I would accept disappointing him in that case.

I would forget about all the stuff about paying for someone else's present, paying to make your ex look good etc... the family benefits outweigh all that. But only if it's what your DS really wants.

I wouldn't pay for the flights.

It would be a different decision to make if it was coming from your salary and was your decision to make alone, but to expect your DH to pay for the flights is really a bit off.

If you're feeling particularly nice you could offer to pay half.

Seems like Kim is trying to make her DP appear to be a better DF than he actually is. I can see how she came up with the idea, but no it doesn't seem right to me, particularly with the DF being so flaky - and she must be aware of that.

Its just the flight you would be helping with, and as you can afford it. I would say yes

I’d ask DS how he feels about the trip. If you really can pay for it very easily and if DS is really keen on the idea, then I’d pay and see it almost like an educational trip - to explore another country, another culture and meet other relatives could be enriching and valuable for your DS. I wouldn’t do it ‘for’ your ex.

I'd be putting in a claim to cms and use some of that money.

I started off wavering towards ‘suck it up and pay for DS sake’ but actually there have been many good points made and I think now I would be a no.

As much as anything, this:

I'd be very wary of your son getting his hopes up over a trip like this. I think the only thing crueller than being rejected by a parent is to be given false hope and then let down again.

Given that DS has never been away with XP, his flakiness and lack of effort with staying in contact, and the fact he doesn’t even know this is being planned, how confident would you be that the trip would go ahead and would be enjoyable for your DS?

I would also want to know what the plan is around where they will stay, what sort of itinerary they’re thinking of - will they be it and about doing things with DS or will he end up left with family he’s never met before while Kim and XP disappear off on trips and activities?

If they’re not used to holidaying with a teen, and haven’t shown any particular inclination to do so before, I’d wonder what their plan is and how they think it will all go.

I also agree it was shitty of Kim not to be clear from the start when asking you.

I think it's really quite cheeky, however if I could afford to comfortably and more so than perhaps half arse dad and Kim I would pay, it would be a great experience for your son and he would enjoy the time with his dad and Kim and I also thibk if it won't make a huge dent in your budget you'll also benefit sone time for yourself! I would however say on this occasion you could manage but isn't somethibg you could do regularly to try and make sure it doesn't happen again x

Another possible outcome is that DS gets all excited about the idea, then closer to the time Kim finds she can't actually afford it, "but DS is so excited and will be so disappointed, wouldn't it be best to pay for LD to accompany DS on the holiday DS will be missing out on otherwise?". There are no depths CFs are too embarrassed to plumb.

ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything

I know (Kim) hasn't got much spare cash ... She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money

So what you've got there is a deadbeat dad who expects everyone else to fund him, even though he hardly bothers with DS

Since DS already has nice holidays with you so won't miss out, here's another vote for "tell him to deduct it from the maintenance" ... should be interesting to hear what he says!!

His dad is not wanting a better relationship with his son tho is he?

This a surprise thought up by Kim.

And actually it’s a very good point, what is their itinerary do they have activities lined up which include your ds?

It would be awful if they left your ds on his own and went off to do their own thing. He’d be too far away to come home.

He isn’t bothered with him at all this year, I wouldn’t want to be sending my child off so far with a father who really doesn’t give a shit about him.

Or if Kim is lovely and close with ds suggest if she can only afford 2 flights, then leave useless dad at home and the 2 of them go 🤣 cheeky bastard dad doesn't deserve a lavish holiday!

fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far)

Based upon this and the fact that he has never financially contributed nor taken ds on any holidays himself i'd say no.
How comfortable would your son actually feel going away to visit and stay with strangers especially when his own father is a relative stranger to him?
Also, it's hardly likely that your ds will be spending any quality time with his father during the holiday.
I think taking him on this holiday is more about them wanting to look like a 'normal family' and avoiding the uncomfortable and embarrassing questions about Lazydad's relationship and involvement in his own sons life.

Your ds is not a pawn to be used like this.

If you agree to it I wouldn't do it without speaking to DS first. May be without being too specific you could ask him how he'd feel about going away with his dad. It's not just about the destination....he might not want it if he has little in common with his dad.

I'd be putting in a claim to cms and use some of that money

Actually, this is an excellent idea ... come to think of it, why you haven't put in a claim before now?

if Kim is lovely and close with ds suggest if she can only afford 2 flights, then leave useless dad at home and the 2 of them go

Or, Kim can be noble and appropriate and suggest that LD goes with DS...

There is no need for this to be a surprise rather than a planned for, affordable trip.

I would say no, but not because of the money. If LD had been a loving, involved parent but had never paid a penny of maintenence, I would pay for the trip in a minute. I would be resentful about the lack of financial support, but there would be a clear benefit to ds in deepening his relationship with his Dad.

But that ain't the case. We have here a father who has never bought him school shoes, let alone taken him on holiday, and who cares so little that he has seen his son only twice this year. There is no making that right by sponsoring a holiday to Barbados.

You can't fix his lack of love for your ds by throwing money at it, so don't. It's hugely sad, but there it is.

How much would you like him to go? Obviously, ex and Kim would like it, and ds himself would too, but what about you?

Can you take your whole family on holiday to Barbados in the next few years? It would be a nice break for all your family and he can meet his relatives but still have his close family for support. Only if it's affordable of course.

this ones easy... it's a FUCK NO

It doesn't matter that it's CFery since you can afford it and you've only 4 more years of having to bother with this loser.

Would you son actually enjoy spending so much time with a Dad who isn't bothered about him though? I don't think most 14 year old boys would think it very exciting to spend a holiday visiting relatives on a budget that doesn't match his normal holidays with a Dad who frankly doesn't care about him.

I would ask DS if he wants to go.

If he doesn't seem bothered I'd say no.

If he's really keen, I would say yes and make it clear it's a one off.

And on my level of petty I'd be getting ds to drop in 'mum paid for me to come along so I can spend some time with dad because I've only seen him twice this year' just so his relatives know he's a dick head too!

Obviously, ex and Kim would like it, and ds himself would too, but what about you?

Ex doesn't know about it, does he? It's a surprise.

I can't help thinking that if I were the OP's DH I'd be really really really resentful. He's indicated that he thinks it's CFery, but his opinion doesn't seem to matter.

"Look, I know you love lazydad very much, and I'm really glad that DS has you in his life, but lazydad has never contributed a single penny to DS's upbringing or support, and has only seen him twice in 2018. We all know he's just not that fussed about his son, and even if I was still working and could afford it, I wouldn't finance a trip to Barbados so that lazydad can present a "perfect dad" fiction to his extended family, which DS has never met or been asked to meet before. It's a lovely idea, and I'm sure lazydad will be over the moon, but I can't pay for it. Thank you for trying to include DS though, I do appreciate that."

This^