Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

I don't think either side is being unreasonable. Either way, someone who is not DS's parent is funding this holiday. So possibly he doesn't go. But if he does go then either the cost is entirely borne by Kim, or is split between Kim and the OP's husband. If this is a surprise for the dad then presumably he's not paying for it. If money weren't an issue (which it doesn't seem to be), then I would definitely pay, but refusal would still be reasonable.

It would probably be a good experience for DS to meet his extended family and get in touch with a cultural heritage he might not have much experience of. If he's grown up black or mixed race in the UK it would be good for him to see a majority black country at work, and he's old enough to understand and remember it.

However, I would be getting on to CMS straight away and insisting on proper maintenance for the remaining years of his childhood.

Honestly, I think it's a CHEEK to expect your DH to foot half the bill for LazyDad's birthday present.

But she's not asking for half. I'm presuming Kim is paying for herself and Lazydad, it's the DS's airfare she's asking for.

I"m also presuming the accommodation/food for the rest of the trip is covered?

But other posters have raised another good point. Would your DS even want to spend that amount of time with his deadbeat father? Even if this gives him the opportunity to meet extended family? Suggest you ask DS if he wants to go.

And actually I think in this instance if a stepmum came on here going, my dh is a SAHD has full residency of his ds. We have dc together as well and I’m the only wage earner in the house.

Dh does not claim maintenance from his ex.

His ex’s DP wants to take ex and DSS to a trip to Barbados where the ex’s family are from. Ex has not seen ds this year except for twice. The DP of ex wants us to pay for flights for DSS. Am I being UR to feel resentful at having to fork out for this, when it’s not even a family holiday for us and the ex has never paid a penny towards her own dc and I’ve happily taken on full financial responsibility for DSS. This feels a step too far.

Presumably they’re staying with family so food and accommodation won’t be expensive or cost anything at all.

If your ex has only seen your son twice this year then that doesn't sound a close relationship. Ex cancels contact weekends a lot . He doesn't sound like he really is interested in your son (his son) much. They must be ok money wise to afford a holiday to Barbados in the first place. I can't. I'm not in your shoes but I would be unsure letting my 14 year old go away with someone who has proved unreliable this whole time.

If "Kim" is paying for herself & your ex, I can see why she might not also want to pay for your son.

What family is it & how much interest did your ex ever show in visiting them/taking his son to see them?

Let's face it, he's 14 & it hasn't happened yet!

Thanks so much for all the messages, it's really given me a lot to consider.

A few posters have mentioned this kind of thing
"Presumably they’re staying with family so food and accommodation won’t be expensive or cost anything at all."
And tbh I hadn't even considered that. It's highly likely they will stay with family isn't it?! FFS.

Also a big thanks to @ID81241 for giving your side, you're absolutely right. Cultural awareness isn't something you can just pick up in a holiday - LazyDad should've been providing this throughout DS life.

I think I'm now leaning towards a no.

“Dear Kim

I think it’s a lovely idea and I think it would be great for DS to go. I do understand why you’ve asked for the flight money. It’s stirred things up for me though, and I’m going to level with you - honestly, I’m reluctant to pay for DS to go on holiday with his dad. Partly because his dad has never paid anything towards bringing up DS. But mainly because his dad doesn’t make the effort to see him. I still think it would be a great trip for DS, and it’s lovely of you to organise it. Obviously, we’re always going to have different feelings about XP. I will pay for the flight - but I’m going to do that as DS’s birthday present.”

I would pay because:

• you can afford it
• it’s a good trip*
• you can easily make sure DS knows the money came from you
• it’s not actually funding his dad as it’s flight only

Personally I wouldn’t worry about precedents. You just say no next time, if there is a next time

*about it being a good trip... is Kim’s family also from Barbados? This waste of space is flaky with his own son, just how close is he likely to be to cousins in Barbados? Is this really going to be a trip where he sees the culture and wider family, or will they just drink cocktails by a hotel pool and see nothing?

OP has DS extended side of the family shown much interest in keeping in contact with him, email, Skype or whatever? I would be concern that he would be a bit uncomfortable with so many people he does not really know very well, as well as how close is his relationship with his dad if he has only seen him twice this year. It could be a bit much for him to handle for an extended time.

Difficult one as you seem to have a great relationship with Kim, although I do wonder what Kim’s thoughts are with Lazydads minimal contact with his Ds.

It’s Kim asking and not Lazydad. Would you be taking Ds on holiday anyway, if he wasn’t invited to go with LD & Kim? Can you book a holiday for you & dh at the same time, having quality time for yourself?

I know in principal I’d be inclined to say no but looking at the bigger picture I’d probably say yes.

I think it's reasonable for you to pay for the flight provided that they are paying for accommodation, food etc. and provided your son is comfortable going away with his Dad and Kim. It's ashame his Dad doesn't see him more though!

And yes is this something you could talk to Ds about? Would he want to go?

This: look, I know you love lazydad very much, and I'm really glad that DS has you in his life, but lazydad has never contributed a single penny to DS's upbringing or support, and has only seen him twice in 2018. We all know he's just not that fussed about his son, and even if I was still working and could afford it, I wouldn't finance a trip to Barbados so that lazydad can present a "perfect dad" fiction to his extended family, which DS has never met or been asked to meet before. It's a lovely idea, and I'm sure lazydad will be over the moon, but I can't pay for it. Thank you for trying to include DS though, I do appreciate that."
I’d add , its a lovely idea and once you’ve given ex his surprise if he cares enough about ds to want to take him to meet his family we certainly wouldn’t stop him going. But we can’t pay for it.

Quite aside from the lack of maintenance...

He has only seen his son twice in 11months!

At this stage I wouldn’t be encouraging their relationship at all.

is Kim’s family also from Barbados? This waste of space is flaky with his own son, just how close is he likely to be to cousins in Barbados

No, Kim's family are European.
As far as I can remember he would keep in email contact with his cousins and they visited the UK about .... 15yrs ago? Before DS was born anyway. They've made no effort to contact DS (although I couldn't know if maybe they've had contact with him through LazyDad)

Does your boy want to go? Are you likely to take him, is your family also from there?
If you can afford it say yes, they are paying other costs. It could be a trip of a lifetime

He has only seen his son twice in 11months!
*
At this stage I wouldn’t be encouraging their relationship at all.*

Pah! After that text exchange, Kim also said

"Oh and I've been on at LD for months to ask you if we can have DS for Xmas this year, has he asked you yet?"
I said
"No! He still hasn't even replied to my message asking him if he wanted to see DS during his 2week October half term! Sorry we already have Xmas plans"
--- and yes that text exchange was a couple of days ago.

He really is fucking useless isn't he.
I can't enable him any longer.

Kim, I would be happy for you to deduct the money for this from the maintenance payments.

I'd say this. Let her stew on that.

LazyDad is a complete arsehole but the women who get with these deadbeats make me feel sick as well.

Suggest she knocks it off the maintenance. Would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

I think you would be right to say no to this cheeky request.

How would your financial contribution actually work? Would you just pass over a ball park figure? How would you know how the money was being spent? My bet is they would ask for more funds as the time got closer.

In effect you would be helping fund an expensive birthday treat for someone who has never given your son a penny. Why would you do that?

Have you ever been to Barbados with your DS? Maybe that could be a plan for the future?

Are you going to take ds to see his family? No, then pay for your ds flights. You aren't paying for there holiday or them you are helping to make sure your ds gets to see family and experience a different place.
As much as he's a lazy dad, your son shouldn't miss out because his dad has been a tight arse.

• Does your boy want to go? Are you likely to take him, is your family also from there? If you can afford it say yes, they are paying other costs. It could be a trip of a lifetime*

I haven't mentioned it to DS yet as I don't want him disappointed if he doesn't go.
My family aren't from there so we don't have any plans to take him.
He will have good holidays next year though - skiing, France with school and Portugal to see my family so he's not going without he's actually a lucky lil sod

Following on from ID812418's remarks, I wonder if you might take your own family on holiday to Barbados and make arrangements for your DS to have contact with his father's family then, which would give him a get-out if he was uncomfortable with them and didn't want to spend too much time with them? Or is that just a really stupid suggestion?

I understand your feelings. However, as this is an opportunity for DS to meet family, I would pay.

I would feel better about it if I knew DS was going to drop into conversation with aunties that Mum had paid for his flight so he could go etc, but that's because I am a bit petty

Thats also my level of petty happypoobum