Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

Your lazy ex with his low paying job, who has no interest in his son, gets to go on a luxury holiday paid for by two women. That is just enabling him.

^^ This. I get the point about it being a birthday surprise but there's no good reason why this has to be a surprise rather than something that is planned. It will give them an opportunity to save up and purchase this: scales may fall from Kim's eyes as to how eager the lazyDad is for the opportunity to be a Disney Dad if he has to work to fund it.

I was torn at first but after reading all OP's updates I think I'd say no. LazyDad hasn't been a father to your son, your DH has filled that role.
Why should you and your DH pay for them to play happy families?

I would say that you are prepared to go halves on ds' spending money

No way would I pay!

Perhaps she can ask paternal family for help with costs

Since they're such CFs (and she's being one as well) it wouldn't surprise me if you were told the flight for DS was £1000, and it turned out you were paying for ex's flight too.

I would speak to your DS and explain what you have been asked to get his view on it. If he seems very keen to go to Barbados and meet his relatives then pay the flight for HIM not because it is your ex's birthday.

How much do you think your child is going to get out of it? (or is the primary benefit to his father?)
If you say no and your child doesn't go but his father and Kim do, how will he feel? And is there a chance that he would be told that the reason he wasn't going was because Kim couldn't afford it and you wouldn't pay?

I would really really really struggle with paying (and I'm in a similar family set-up to you). But I'm trying to convince myself that if I felt my child stood to gain/lose then I'd get over my qualms. As a once-off and with a total ban given to Kim on any repeat request.

Tough call.

astoundedgoat's note was perfect.

I would probably ask ds if he would be interested in going to Barbados to meet everyone first, then consider whether or not to pay depending on his response.

Are you able/would you be willing to go as a family and make it into a family holiday for you, your dh and ds (do you have more children with dh too)? Then you'd have a holiday in Barbados yourselves but ds can see his other family on some days so you and dh can have some days to yourselves/with your other children, and some days with ds as a family holiday? (Or would that be awkward/not practical?)

It is cheeky. If they want to take him, they should pay for it. But, it does sound like a good opportunity for your son, even if you have to foot the bill. If you can afford it, it’s probably in his best interests to do it.

Kim knows you won't say no to her that's why she is asking.
I would text
'I am more than happy for ds to go on the trip I think it would be a fantastic opportunity for him. But we fund his holidays for our family and it up to you both to fund holidays for your family. I hope you can work something out it would be great.'

I think she is a cf and would also put in something about never getting maintenance but I am petty.
You will end up funding every holiday every year before you know it.

It's a NO from me,

astoundedgoat response is perfect;

"look, I know you love lazydad very much, and I'm really glad that DS has you in his life, but lazydad has never contributed a single penny to DS's upbringing or support, and has only seen him twice in 2018. We all know he's just not that fussed about his son, and even if I was still working and could afford it, I wouldn't finance a trip to Barbados so that lazydad can present a "perfect dad" fiction to his extended family, which DS has never met or been asked to meet before. It's a lovely idea, and I'm sure lazydad will be over the moon, but I can't pay for it. Thank you for trying to include DS though, I do appreciate that."

Some situations are lose-lose.

Your dh is very understanding and generous but don't abuse this. It is wrong that he is being asked to pay for this.

Your ds may well miss out by not going but it may not be the amazing trip you hope for. The cynic in me says why are they showing a sudden interest in spending time with him? I guess the answer is because you'll end up funding more than 'just' the flight and would effectively be subsidising their trip as well. Accommodation/other costs will be minimal for them if they are staying with family. Be careful also about getting your son's hopes up about some new, closer relationship with his Dad only to be let down again.

That's a good message to send ^

I might also add that you feel like you've been put in an awful position where it's now your "fault" if DS doesn't go to Barbados and that's pretty unfair

Perhaps you could offer to just pay half the airfare? Presumably the accommodation costs and spending money do not amount to much if they'll be staying with family? I like the idea of asking your son if he wants to go and if he does, offering half the fare as a birthday or Christmas Present - it might make it easier to swallow for you and your husband.

It sounds like you have a good relationship with Kim and the bigger picture here is not wanting to ruin that as that's a great example to be setting for your son. Ultimately it's your son that loses out if things turn sour as he'll be in that awful position of trying to keep both sides sweet.

And don't be dragged into the emotional guilt trip everyone here is saying, "it will be worth it for him to meet family etc"

No it won't, it will be a one off you have funded. It's not LazyDads idea, and he has never shown an interest to do that previously,
so just because the lovely Kim has had a nice birthday idea, it changes nothing about LazyDads attitude and care towards your son.

Once again I repeat astoundedgoat response has it nailed. Please send that.

Explain you are a SAHM and that although it DH is very generous supporting DS as exDP has never paid any maintenance, you can’t afford the flights and can’t ask DH to pay.

It's a bit difficult if he doesn't know and isn't aware. I'd text back, "As you know LazyDad doesn't contribute anything towards his DS's upbringing, so it's a big ask and I will have to think about it. I'll let you know ASAP." She should be made aware that he doesn't support his child.

Have you got other children with your husband OP?

Astoundedgoat's message says it all really.

If they are covering the accommodation I would probably say yes - if your son really wants to go and you can afford it.

I wouldn’t.

Purely as I would not expect my DP who is not the father of my dc to fork out for a holiday for my dc when he is financially supporting him fully anyway.

I’d find it incredibly rude expecting my DP to pay for holidays for my dc who are not his. It’s different if you’re all going on a family holiday but not expecting him to pay out for dc who are not his for a separate holiday.

I’d actually reply back with
Sorry Kim as you know I don’t currently work and lazyfecker dad of dc has never paid cold support so I can’t really justify asking for my dh to pay such a large sum of money for dc when he’s paying for everything for him already.

But the idea is lovely. Thank you for including ds.

I’ve got a blended family too, I do not expect DP to pay for my older dc who aren’t his, he does it’s family money and he spoils them a lot, but I would not ever ask my DP to pay for a holiday for my dc which we weren’t a part of especially such an expensive one. I’d feel like a cheeky fucker. You’ve never attempted to go thro CMS for money from your ex, don’t make your dh feel like your ds is a financial burden on him. He sounds like a lovely man. I wouldn’t expect him to find this.

Simply you cannot justify this from your family pot. However nice it would be for your ds.

Also - this isn't your ExH idea. He's shown no responsibility or interest in your son.

How do you know he won't just ignore him on holiday? As he's always treated your son like shit, do you think it would be different on holiday?

It could get your son's hopes up, and end up being awful.

Your Ex's girlfriend is hoping her BF is someone he isn't. A good Dad.

so just because the lovely Kim has had a nice birthday idea for LazyDad! This is all about LazyDad, not about your DS.

Honestly, I think it's a CHEEK to expect your DH to foot half the bill for LazyDad's birthday present.