Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

She wants ds there so her dh can appear to be a lovely family man to his family.
He fucking isn't though.
Not about your ds at all.

It must really stick in your dh's throat that he's being asked to pay out even more so that your ex can pretend to be a good dad.

Why don’t you discuss it with ds and find out if he wants to go?

I think Kim is a bit of a CF, no wonder she gets on with your ex.

"I've arranged a lovely surprise for my man, I want you to pay for half of it".

Is the money yours? I'm a bit confused about who would be footing the the bill. If it's your money then it's your choice but if it's household money then you need to talk to your DH and figure out what he wants to do. She was a cf for asking you to pay after hooking you in! How much are the flights? I bet they're the most expensive part as I'd assume they'll be staying with family over there who will house and feed them.

Not difficult to me.

Happy to pay although you feel cheeky to suggest that 10 years of child support will now be chased.

I suggest it might be cheaper for you to pay flights etc. Your choice.

Aw. I can understand just what a difficult this decision this is. I think you need to get yourself into a really good place mentally first, by preparing for the worst... iyswim. It’s great that you’ve already considered if this would be the first turn of a “tap” - so hopefully you’re going to be ready to be gently firm that this is very exceptional and a complete one off. Also consider how you’d feel if you found out (however remote the chance) that this was LazyDads idea and he got Kim to ask. Would you still just be happy that you’re paying for DS to have this chance?

If this is an opportunity to see part of his family/heritage that you wouldn’t be taking him to go see, then it does sound like a very special trip for DS. A nice age to be exploring the world a bit and it’s sounds like, in Kim, he’s got someone who’ll be motivated give him a positive experience.

Another way to maybe play with it in your mind, would be to imagine if a friend of your DS invited DS on holiday with their family, and the family asked you to pay for his flight. Would you do it then? This exact scenario happened when I was 14 and a friend invited me to lanzarote with her family. The difference being my family were on quite a low income, and we didn’t have a family holiday ourselves that year (infact, I think we didn’t have another one again ) but they found the money for my flight and I had a briiiiilliant time. And it was maaaany years later before I realised what a big thing it must have been at the time - they were only “bright and breezy” to me about it at the time, which let me go being ignorant and blissful :)

My initial reaction is yes I would pay. What a great experience for your DS plus getting to meet family he otherwise might not ever see.

Then reading the thread - I can totally see why you might not. It IS a cheeky bastard thing to ask in the context of your financial situation. And no way would I subsidise LazyDad's cosy family fiction. This is £500-ish according to a quick google. It's not spare change.

Your DS cannot expect to go, never having been on holiday with them before and only having seen his dad twice this year (ugh).

It does indeed set a bit of a precedent. But only you know whether they're likely to take advantage in the future.

I would still probably cough up, though! With extremely stringent conditions and a dogged determination to fend off any future attempts at getting money out of you using emotional blackmail.

I would do it solely for DS’s benefit. This may be the only opportunity he has to meet his other relatives and will open a door for possible future contact as an adult if he so wishes.
You could talk to DS about it and offer the trip as an alternative to some other gift or trip you were planning.
Disregard Lazy Dad, who cares about him, it is your DS’s interests that are your concern and in this case you can “use” him to provide an enriching experience for your DS.

I think you need to say no or more requests will come. Just tell her that as her DP has never paid a penny towards his son's upkeep you don't feel in a position to subsidise his holiday.

I would say yes, she is paying for the accommodation, spending money, etc. And it's a great opportunity for DS.

Have to push principle aside in this instance, though I totally get where you're coming from and it could've been positioned a bit more clearly and fairly.

Do it for your DS.

With extremely stringent conditions and a dogged determination to fend off any future attempts at getting money out of you using emotional blackmail.

I have family members who successfully set the precedent for this and have done it for decades - so this might be warping my view. I refused to go along with it 25 years ago and know that other members have picked up the expense in my stead. You can guess who the ostracised family member is...

I would still probably cough up, though!

OP isn't coughing up though, is she? It's her DH who'll be doing that, and he's already gone

If my son wanted to go then I would pay. It would boil down to being that simple for me and the backstory with Lazydad wouldn’t come into it.

I wouldn't, no. And given your Ex's flakiness, are you sure he would actually want your son there?

You can guess who the ostracised family member is...

That sounds awful, I'm sorry you went through that.

But here, if DS is 14, then there's another 4 years OP has to stay in some kind of contact with LazyDad and then it's over and done with barring social events anyway, isn't it?

My parents divorced when I was 5ish and since I was 18 they've only ever spoken to each other at my wedding.

I think I would also be looking at the potential fallout for DS that may come after the holiday if Lazydad puts on an act in front of his family for a week.

What happens if DS assumes the 'new' Lazydad is for real and thinks they will have an equally good relationship when he gets home? Is it likely to make things a hundred times worse for DS if his dad goes back to only wanting to see him a couple of times a year?

I think a lot will come down to whether DS will know that it's all an act or whether he is likely to believe that his dad has changed and be even more hurt when the pretence comes to an end.

Honestly, I'd contribute a couple hundred quid then leave it at that.

It would be lovely with your DS to go but this is unacceptable.

They are being rewarded for their lack of financial contribution and if it happens once it will happen again.

It's not your responsibility for your child to meet his paternal side.

Kim sounds lovely but she also allows her husband to not pay maintenance (very unlikely she doesn't know).

You could save up and take him to Barbados yourself, if they just assume you can afford it they won't look for the best deals and I bet it could come up in excess of £1500.

I would contribute some but not all. She's very out of order considering he hasn't helped you financially at all. I'd also tell her why; that he hasn't paid towards DS for his entire life.

I would say ‘No’ . Your lazy ex with his low paying job, who has no interest in his son, gets to go on a luxury holiday paid for by two women. That is just enabling him.

Could Kim afford the flight for DS?

OP isn't coughing up though, is she? It's her DH who'll be doing that, and he's already gone

That's true. But I have no insight into their personal financial arrangements and assumed since the question is still under discussion, that the money is actually available.

Good point, though, if this will cause OP's relationship to sour with her DH, is it really worth it?

I wouldn't do it on principle. I'm from another culture too so I know how important it is to get cultural reference, but this is something that happens over a lifetime and mainly through the parent. A holiday in Barbados won't get your DS in touch with his culture...and he will be able to get a similar experience on his own or with you and your DH if you wanted (and if you have contact with your DS's family in barbados).

Your ex has not paid a penny towards your DS's living - he has not imparted his culture on your DS like most parents do through nurture and quality time spent together from the childhood years. There's no quick fix to getting culture so I would take that element out of it which is the thing that seems to be influencing you the most. Once that angle is taken out the answer is clear - they're taking the piss. If he wants to take his son on holiday he should pay for it. He's a deadbeat dad and sounds absolutely useless and your DH should not be paying for your ex to look like the hero disney dad (at least real disney dads fund it themselves).

Finally in terms of saying they'll cover food and accommodation, my experience of visiting family in the Caribbean is that you stay with your family (so no accommodation costs), and they feed & host you properly you until you cannot eat anymore (so no food costs) - so the flight costs and extra spending money are the only real costs anyway! They're taking the piss.

I would tell Kim that as ex has never contributed any maintenance to ds (and you have never chased him for it or asked for anything) that she will have to forgo the surprise element so that ex can choose to pay for ds himself.

Your son is 14 so old enough to understand what’s going on; see what his take on the situation is.