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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
EdithBouvier · 22/11/2018 15:50

YABU for continuing to phone 111 for a baby with a cold then arguing about what grunting is on the phone- youve stated you're a professional then you should understand what they're getting at I.e is your baby struggling for every breath. I can imagine how the conversation would have gone you phoned for advice then argued the point about grunting then refused to take your baby to a&e. If you know best don't phone 111 for advice. Maybe the operator overstepped the mark referring you but I'd love to hear her side of how the conversation went.

YeahCorvid · 22/11/2018 15:51

It's a real disaster that it's becoming essentially impossible to see drs in this country. you have people who just aren't trained making random decisions about things. There is a fundamental conceptual mistake at the heart of this idea that "doctors can do the real stuff, cheaper people can do the less serious stuff" because DOCTORS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHEN IT IS SERIOUS OR NOT.

It's like saying "We'll only pay for a trial if he didn't do it, we'll do without if he did" erm DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THAT QUESTION IS WHAT A TRIAL IS ABOUT?

ReflectionsofParadise · 22/11/2018 15:52

I'd be more concerned you are repeatedly calling 111 for basic medical advice when they are just call handlers. You could've just called them and requested an out of hrs gp at your local walk-in if you have one and gone to that.

Also if baby has been this bad for so many weeks I'd be asking your GP for a proper paediatric clinic referral for an assessment for RSV that wont go away, and also an urgent referral to the allergy clinic. A cold or consistent congestion for 9 weeks is not normal. Push for further investigations.

HJWT · 22/11/2018 15:52

I've dealt with SS since I was 12 years old, Iv also studied health and social care and worked in a hospital. From a mothers point of view you are always just being cautious and double checking with a professional that your son is not in danger, from a professionals points of view you can't cope with your child's needs and are constantly seeking help for a common cold, then when they are advising you with help your refusing it in there eyes! The call worker was completely out of order but you need to remember that his records are on their computer and they can see he has a 'record' of being ill often and you have a 'record' of calling for help! Unfortunately sweet our NHS is now f**cked (hence why I quit my job) and you would be better of taking him into a 24 hour pharmacy if your worried x if SS ever call or become involved COOPERATE invite them round offer them a brew, let them see your child as shit as it is, your showing them you have nothing to hide and that your son is a happy loved baby!

SummerInSun · 22/11/2018 15:52

You are absolutely not overusing the services, and it’s always better to be safe than sorry. Of course you should seek help with such a small baby. My 11 month old wound up in intensive care on a ventilator for a week with bronchitis which started as “just a cold”. The people who say that you shouldn’t bother the NHS for something “trivial” I think have been lucky that nothing trivial ever became anything serious.

YeahCorvid · 22/11/2018 15:53

I have a masters in english but I am not sure I could confidently answer yes or no to a question about whether a noise a baby was making would medically be considered "grunting". I mean they all snuffle, right? Then there's a sort of snotty snuffle. When does that become a "grunt"? Are you all really that confident about that?

ReflectionsofParadise · 22/11/2018 15:54

Basically... you might be a 'professional' OP but you're lacking in a bit of common sense here and have a serious air of entitlement.

"SS family" Confused Hmm

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:55

@AG1x - I was reported to SS for refusing to do so! Read the full thread for goodness sake!!!

OP posts:
TeddyIsaHe · 22/11/2018 15:55

If I had a parent of an 11 week old call multiple times and attend A&E for an otherwise healthy baby with a cold, I would assume the parents weren’t able to cope and yes I would take things further. Congestion is awful to listen to, I know. But your anxiety will hinder you a lot in the future.

I would comply with whatever social services are asking of you, to go in all guns blazing isn’t something I would do personally.

A first aid course is an excellent idea, you can then learn the difference between an emergency and what can wait until morning to be seen by a pharmacist who can then advise if you need to get in touch with a gp.

Obviously if baby is seriously unwell do not hesitate in getting him to hospital ASAP.

TimeWoundsAllHeals · 22/11/2018 15:55

111 called an ambulance for us several times and the doctors surgery said not to call them again, just call the doctors, unless we really think it can't possibly wait till morning. When you're a first time parent you think 111 is there to help but actually it's just a recursive arse covering service.

Hannnnnnnxo · 22/11/2018 15:56

You’re going to be deeply offended by this but I think you’re calling 111/A&E too much too - you seem to have health anxiety thanks to being a new parent. I can absolutely sympathise and think you need some support, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’ve been going to A&E over colds.

You said this was just after midnight, but now that your baby has been checked multiple times and been diagnosed with a cold each time, maybe just wait until the morning until your GP opens and keep an eye on him overnight? (take him to A&E if his symptoms worsen)

Also, you may have come across as confrontational to the call handler. You were emotional and stressed which has probably clouded your recollection of the phone call and what you demeanour was like. You sound like you were a bit argumentative from what you wrote in your OP. 111 ask you questions off of a list to triage you, that’s what the robotic, mundane questions were all about

YeahCorvid · 22/11/2018 15:57

And, (continuing the rant about people not being able to see doctors) what grows out of this as a way of justifying what is essentially a problem of resources, is an idealogical overlay that people are basically lily-livered piss-takers. Let's all watch out for that dog whistle and challenge it when we hear it.

"There aren't enough GP appointments" ok that's a basic fact to do with an NHS that has been deliberately and ideologically brought to its knees

"people don't need GPs, they waste appointments, and phone lines and pharmacists will do, trying to see a GP is usually a waste of resources" - this is a gloss and a lie. Don't accept it and don't perpetuate it

RatRolyPoly · 22/11/2018 15:57

You are absolutely not overusing the services, and it’s always better to be safe than sorry. Of course you should seek help with such a small baby. My 11 month old wound up in intensive care on a ventilator for a week with bronchitis which started as “just a cold”. The people who say that you shouldn’t bother the NHS for something “trivial” I think have been lucky that nothing trivial ever became anything serious.

YY to this, and Flowers for you Summer.

I was flapping on the phone to 111 as to what "sucking in" looked like. Turns out it when your baby is "sucking in" it might not be as obvious as you'd like to imagine. I'm also an educated professional. OP, YANBU.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:58

Thank you @RatRolyPoly Thanks

OP posts:
EleanorofCastile · 22/11/2018 15:58

I’ve called them twice about a baby.
Both times they told me she needed to be seen by a doctor, the first time they sent me somewhere (a minor injuries centre), which wouldn’t see a young baby. The second time they didn’t know where I should go (I was on holiday) and asked me to call them back in a few hours.

In the end I just called the local GPs myself.

YeahCorvid · 22/11/2018 15:59

"I think you’re calling 111/A&E too much too - you seem to have health anxiety thanks to being a new parent. I can absolutely sympathise and think you need some support, "

This is for some people part of having a small baby and exactly the sort of thing that a GP can help with. It's not the OP's fault. While more experienced people might have done things differently, the OP should have better support, not be berated for trying to access the inappropriate support that was all that was on offer

plaidlife · 22/11/2018 15:59

From a SS perspective there is no such thing as a social services family
In some areas of the U.K. three visits to A&E with a DC would automatically trigger a referral to SS because previous history shows us that it can be a significant red flag in abuse cases.
Talk politely to social services, let them see there are no concerns.
Seek support for your health visitor around managing colds as best as they can be managed or make an appointment to see your GP if the medical issue is more serious.

SleepySofa · 22/11/2018 15:59

I may be wrong, but I think CMPA can also cause sniffles too. Any sign of a rash?

TeddyIsaHe · 22/11/2018 15:59

No one is saying that if a baby’s illness progresses from just a cold they shouldn’t be seen as a matter of urgency, it’s just when it IS just a cold there’s no need to go to A&E to get prescribed saline drops that you could have picked up from the chemist the next morning is there?

Hannnnnnnxo · 22/11/2018 16:00

Also as a side note, as a PP poster mentioned maybe the 111 adviser was trying to cover her own arse by asking you to take baby to A&E and contacting social services? I’m thinking along the lines of if she suspected the child was being abused and thought something odd was going on with his breathing difficulties, where someone at A&E may be able to notice and take action. Obviously that doesn’t apply in your situation but if something was amiss, the call handler wouldn’t be bollocked for not acting on red flags.

RatRolyPoly · 22/11/2018 16:00

Obviously if baby is seriously unwell do not hesitate in getting him to hospital ASAP.

The difference between an unwell baby and a seriously unwell baby is often very subtle. I say this from personal experience.

If you think it could be serious, you absolutely should be seeking professional advice.

MeredithGrey1 · 22/11/2018 16:02

The 111 woman sounds awful. I agree with people who’ve said that 111 is not great and all done from set scripts. I called once with odd symptoms after a miscarriage and told the call handler I’d had a scan 2 days before which had confirmed the miscarriage at 8 weeks pregnant. His next question was “are you pregnant” and the question after that was “have you given birth in the last 2 weeks”.

But the thing with the SW saying they have to investigate with or without consent does make sense. I’m sure they’ll find very quickly they have no concerns with you but I imagine lots of the people they contact say a version of “no there’s no problem, that complaint is incorrect and has been made maliciously and we’re not going to speak to you.” They can’t just take everyone at their word.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 22/11/2018 16:02

May I offer some gentle advice? Please talk to your GP or HV about your anxiety.

Babies are hard work. Poorly babies even harder. Keep going to the children's centre too.

Every family in the land is potentially a SS family. You might not like the language the call handler used, but can you try to see that talking to a professional and accepting help if it is offered could help your little one and you? Thanks

MrsStrowman · 22/11/2018 16:02

'we are not a SS family' 🤨 really?? Could you pull your judgy pants any higher?
You are repeatedly calling an urgent care/out of hours service and taking your baby to a and e for a cold. SS offer parenting support and guidance which it sounds like you need.

TeddyIsaHe · 22/11/2018 16:02

Yes but surely it’s quite obvious the difference between a cold and a potentially serious illness? And if it isn’t parents need to be getting themselves on an infant first aid course as a matter of urgency.

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