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AIBU?

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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
Oblomov18 · 22/11/2018 15:31

I'm so sorry.
But. Please. Your'll need to action 2 things straight away.

1)transcript of 111 call.
2) transcript or notes of SS call.

I'll bet SS won't have a transcript and will dispute what was said.

But if you don't request them soon, you may not get them.

You need to log a complaint with both. Get a case number. Follow it up.

The 111 sounds bad. But even the SS said things that could have been handled better.

Nemesia · 22/11/2018 15:32

I'm sorry for what you have gone through. I wonder if you have considered that your baby might have a cow's milk allergy?, might that be the cause of his congestion?

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:35

I apologise for my comment about not being a SS family- I am not snooty/entitled/precious, etc.

I've already qualified in a pp why I used that (poor) wording.

OP posts:
BollocksToBrexit · 22/11/2018 15:35

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family.

What is a SS family?

Sugarhunnyicedtea · 22/11/2018 15:36

The referral was probably made because of the frequency of using 111 and a&e for cold symptoms. The call handler was unnecessarily rude though and I think that warrants following up.

Losingthechubrub · 22/11/2018 15:36

I work at a children's centre and believe me, the staff are not judging you. If yours is anything like ours, the outreach team running the groups probably won't be aware of the referral, which will be allocated to a keyworker. They are there to support you and your family as a whole, not just your child, so if you do need any help, don't be afraid to speak up.

We work at Level 2 on the Continuum of Need by the way, which is classified as 'Evidence of some unmet needs and low risk'. If the assessment team processing the referral thought your child was in any danger, it would have gone to social care at Level 3. Honestly, don't worry, we're quite nice really.

Blanchedupetitpois · 22/11/2018 15:36

The only thing I can think is that the number of times you had sought medical intervention for colds before was maybe making her worry something else was up? But still doesn’t excuse her behaviour. I like to think most SS referrals are made in good faith though, so maybe she was just trying to do what was right.

Either way I agree with PPs that you should request a transcript of the call, so that you can show social services or anyone else what happened. You don’t deserve to feel worried that you’re being judged all the time!

ChasedByBees · 22/11/2018 15:37

This does sound awful. 111 can’t offer general healthcare advice, they follow a script as far as I can tell. I would complain and don’t be ashamed to go to the children’s centre.

LIZS · 22/11/2018 15:38

Why do you feel you cannot go to the children's centre? They are not there to judge you and may be able to offer help and support. Does your hv run clinics there? Do they offer paediatric first aid whoch might give you more confidence. There is no such thing as a non ss family btw - sadly abuse, neglect, domestic violence, send and mental health issues do not respect social boundaries.

cestlavielife · 22/11/2018 15:38

Saying this gently . it does sound like you need some support to feel less anxious and a bit more confident about dealing with a baby with a cold.

So... sign up for baby first aid course
a s a p both parents
Learn resuscitation. Learn what to look out for and feel more confident.
Go along to children's centre
Talk to other parents about dealing with colds and other minor issues
Learn what are danger signs and what are not.
Yes a and e are happy to reassure first time parents but you don't want to go there at midnight if not needed.
Sometimes ss may get involved when unnecessary but it is nothing to do with who you are . Anyone can be anxious or get pnd or have a sick baby or not know at first how to deal with a simple.cold.. No point getting angry .

New baby
You are tired
But inform and learn and do baby first aid course and get to know your local pharmacist for first advice

Blanchedupetitpois · 22/11/2018 15:38

I also think refusing to cooperate with SS is a bad call. Nobody thinks they are an ‘SS family’ but you should still be willing to prove to SS that you aren’t - which will be easy for you because they’ll be able to see very quickly that you aren’t bad parents.

DishingOutDone · 22/11/2018 15:39

Some of you may recall NHS DIrect from a few years back, the predecessor to 111. My friend a nursing sister with 40 years experience was a call handler there. She would give NURSING ADVICE. When the Government wanted to get something cheaper she was one of the people consulted about 111 proposals; as I understand it 111 was to be staffed entirely by lay people using a computer logarithm, so no nursing experience required, or even any common sense as OP's experience and that of many others shows. (Should say that I realise some 111 staff still are nurses etc but they are not required to be).

When my now teenage DDs were small one had what appeared to be croup. I rang NHS direct and said put me on to a nurse who knows what croup sounds like and they did, immediately, no debate. Oh and SS should be checking hospital records; sounds like people are just making trouble for you OP - definitely complain.

DanglyBangly · 22/11/2018 15:40

I don’t think I’ve ever phoned 111 and not been sent to A&E. It’s all they bloody do, I don’t phone them anymore.

DonaldDucksTowel · 22/11/2018 15:40

I’ve just googled ‘11 week old with cold symptoms’ and no I can’t see that advice anywhere on the nhs website
And even if it does say seek medical advice your first port of call should be a pharmacist or GP, not A&E

Confuzzlediddled · 22/11/2018 15:40

The one time I used 111 for myself, was due to an extremely heavy period. The doctor called and said well you are 53 so we would expect erratic bleeding - I pointed out I was actually 41, seems she had a totally different persons details!

She then got flustered, told me I would have to go to A&E and hung up!! Shock

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:41

@DonaldDucksTowel - what past midnight?! Whatever.

OP posts:
shearwater · 22/11/2018 15:42

Do you have a baby clinic where you take the baby to be weighed?

I used to ask for general advice there rather than the GP, 111 or A&E.

AG1x · 22/11/2018 15:43

YABU for attending A&E with a cold Confused

RatRolyPoly · 22/11/2018 15:45

While she was clearly in the wrong I do think a referral would’ve probably been made at some point or another with the frequency you are using 111 and A&E - you really shouldn’t be repeatedly using those services for a baby with a cold

The referral was probably made because of the frequency of using 111 and a&e for cold symptoms.

That's not true!! Honestly, I really hope no-one with a baby reads this and is put off calling 111 for a sick baby because they fear they're over-using the service for "just" cold symptoms, and for fear of being reported.

Please, folks with babies, please keep using these services if you are worried!

I've just come out of hospital with my 2nd child, 15 months old, and I can tell you now the symptoms which had her rushed from an ambulance (called by 111) and straight into resus were only very subtlely different from the symptoms that have seen me sit in A&E "for nothing" for hours with my first.

Equally the symptoms that saw her directly admitted and within second of a doctor clapping eyes on her spending an age trying to insert a canula into her wrist as her respiratory system was shutting down.

VERY SIMILAR INDEED.

The difference was almost imperceptible to someone who is not a trained medic and who does not have the monitoring equipment necessary.

Yes, use common sense, use the GPs and walk-in centres when you can, but do not be put off using 111 or A&E if you have a baby you're worried about. You won't get in any trouble.

YeahCorvid · 22/11/2018 15:46

that sounds dreadful.
I think you need to see your GP (hollow laugh - easier said than done) and talk through all of the issues - your baby's difficulty sleeping, the congestion, and what you should consider when thinking about whether your baby needs emergency help or not. Consider it a coaching session so that you can decide for yourself between A and E or caring for your baby at home.

Also explain that you are really shaken and troubled by this incident. I think you should find your GP will be very supportive of you, as a person, as well as of you as your baby's carer. When my babies were tiny I just became a baby-supporting-machine and the good GPs are trained to understand that you need to be looked after not just because your baby depends on you, but for your own sake too.

What is your HV like? They're a mixed bag. One of my HVs was one of the loveliest people I have ever met and she was such a calm, supportive, voice of reason. If you have / can find a good one, this is also a good person to give you support and confidence in knowing when your baby is a bit snotty and when you need more medical help.

My baby got bronchiolitis. I went to the GP 3 times in 2 days to get that diagnosis and the proper treatment. The first two times they were very kind but explained they just couldn't see symptoms of more than a cold - but that I was to bring her back and they'd fit her in with no notice if I was worried. In the end the troubling signs that I could see were more obvious to those who didn't know her and she was treated for bronchiolitis.

That was 9 years ago. I dread to think what would have happened in the current climate, where seeing a GP is so incredibly difficult. I would have been sent away once (assuming I managed to get that appointment), would have watched her deteriorate while panicking and doubting myself and yes, would definitely have rocked up at A and E at a stupid hour of the night with a very distressed baby who might have been in danger by then.

so yes do what you can to get good links with your GP and your HV and never phone 111 again.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:46

Brilliant advice about paediatric first aid- I shall be auctioning that ASAP. We've been for regular weigh ins but the HV always seems rushed and there's never a chance to have a chat. We're allocated numbers in an open room and the next person is waiting with an undressed baby before the person in front has even finished! Will hang around though.

And, to those who think I'm calling the GP/111/A&E too much- having a new baby is terrifying. I personally know of at least two babies who contracted serious infections (symptoms started off as the cold) and had to be quarantined at the hospital for months on end. Maybe that's driving my anxiety through the roof for my little one. Either way, SS should t have been used as a threat/contacted.

OP posts:
DonaldDucksTowel · 22/11/2018 15:47

Well no not at midnight, in the morning obviously
You waited until morning to be seen at A&E anyway

I would possibly seek help for your anxiety too

bonbonours · 22/11/2018 15:48

All NHS professionals I have dealt with have basically told me don't bother with 111 as they are useless. We have a drop in minor illness clinic here open 8-8 run by nurses but if they are concerned they will refer to out of hours doc or hospital. In the middle of the night I would look at the NHS website for advice and either go to hospital or wait until morning depending on how serious it seemed.

Allaboutmeandyou · 22/11/2018 15:48

what past midnight?! Whatever.

Its not Donalds fault she didn't make you ring 111 continuously. Babies as well as adults will struggle to breath when they have a cold. They probably think your not coping very well. A baby cant talk and ss have to monitor you somehow. You should ideally wait until the morning to see your gp then they can prescribe your baby what he needs.

cestlavielife · 22/11/2018 15:48

Also focus on your baby rather than an ss complaint.
If your baby is fine and you are coping no further action will be taken
If they come to you then ask about a first aid course or other classes.
If your baby has ongoing digestive feeding constant virus issues talk to gp And get referrals.
Focus on you and your baby and go to children centre