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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
MonaLisaDoesntSmile · 24/11/2018 13:43

@Charmlight- it definitely seems the referral was done on someone's whim 100%.

Charmlight · 24/11/2018 17:06

No MonaLisaDoesntSmile, it will have gone through because that was the protocol.

busybarbara · 24/11/2018 17:38

And if they'd be oh okay you make the call as the parent and then something bad had happened the 111 operator would have been hauled over the coals! If you disagree with someone's conclusion at the end of such a call just say thank you, sure, and end the call.. not contradict them and cause them concern.

Rosebud21 · 24/11/2018 18:09

Telephone triage by a non clinical operator using algorithms (111) can uncommonly, result in a SS referral, as can face-to-face consultations with a health care professional. SS, however, have to respond to referrals regardless who makes them, they are sensible in their assessment. As others have said there is no such thing as a SS family, do not be ashamed. This link to an information pdf is useful with sick children www.coastalwestsussexccg.nhs.uk/domains/coastal-west-sussex-ccg.org.uk/local/media/documents/misc/Sepsis_ParentAdviceSheet_Dec_16_FINAL_VS.pdf

scottishlass123 · 24/11/2018 22:03

Contact a solicitor (if you can afford it) and get a copy of the transcript. The solicitor will sort it out for you, you don't need this stress and worry bliting such a precious time with your baby. The call handler was being ridiculous and malicious. Furthermore, don't listen to the posters complaining that you contacted medical help to often for your poorly new baby. It is better to be safe than sorry and with your first you are more anxious about illness as this is the first time you have been responsible for a sick baby. Doctors etc are used to first time parents being a little over anxious. It is normal. Go to the children's centre and explain what happened to you, I am sure they will be sympathetic. Enjoy your baby and try not to let this bad experience consume you.

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 24/11/2018 22:15

scottishlass the OP has had a cap experience but the 111 handlers have strict guidelines to follow. If their screening tells them to send the caller to A&E and the caller refuses that's all well and good. When the caller is the parent of a child and the child is the subject of the call then the caller has no option but to refer on. A solicitor is of no use here. The call handler has to follow safeguarding protocol.
I feel for the OP here as she is not a neglectful or abusive parent, however the call handler won't know that so has to refer on. Social services won't take or up as they will see all is well and just good parents caring for their child.

Jayfee · 24/11/2018 22:30

Try to move on. You are a loving and concerned mum. It is natural to be anxious about a new baby and the call handler should have been gentler. She probably followed protocol re referring on, but that is no reflection on you. Hope the baby is better soon.

isthatalright · 24/11/2018 22:45

I'd stock up on some saline drops!

JassyRadlett · 25/11/2018 14:26

Do not record the meeting-awful advice. Looks like youre hiding something.

That is bizarrely illogical. How does having a verbatim record of a meeting = hiding something?

It may look like the person has limited faith in the professionalism of the authorities, sure. But hiding something? If that is the judgement SS professionals would make un response to a polite request to record a meeting, then it undermines all the statements on this thread that they are objective and professional.

Innocentconglomeration · 25/11/2018 14:30

She can't record the meeting without their consent, or at least she can record it, but not use it and I'd expect them to want a system similar to the police system of tapes.

Shepherdspieisminging · 25/11/2018 14:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Someonehelpmi · 25/11/2018 14:49

I Don't have any advice sorry but just wanted to say I'm sorry you experienced such a shitty attitude from people who are meant to help and reassure you most and put all your trust in. When my son was a new born he had been crying literally non stop for 10 hours and with a really low temp my partner (unecersserily, but panicked) called an ambulance and they were the most understanding and kindest people! We apologised profusely and they said not to worry and it's better to be on the safe side. In the future don't let this experience put you off seeking out help for your baby if you are worried Flowers

JassyRadlett · 25/11/2018 15:05

She doesn't need a verbatim record.

That’s opinion rather than fact; however what is the downside of having a verbatim record of a conversation in case of future disagreement over what was said in a meeting?

She needs to comply with them and be honest.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

plaidlife · 25/11/2018 15:15

OP I wouldn't go down the route of recording meetings, it isn't usual and will mark you out as either being overly controlling, unusually defensive or struggling with mental health issues.
It is perfectly sensible to have a support person with you if you feel you need it.
Setting up a confrontational vibe with social workers isn't going to help with getting the assessment done. They are doing a job they have done many times before. All you need to do is answer any questions they ask, that is it. From what you have said they would be unlikely to do anything other than suggest first aid course and ensure you are linked with health visitor system/ GP.

m0therofdragons · 25/11/2018 15:40

Three trips to A&E for a dc in 6 months would trigger a ss phone call anyway. There are other triggers too. Dd had an eeg (to test her brain) then an mri (expected epilepsy) but ss got a muddled message and thought serious head injury so called. I explained and all was fine. I thanked them for calling as I believe that if their is a tiny suggestion a dc is not being cared for as they should I would rather they checked.

In future ask a pharmacist for advice with a cold rather than 111 who can't see your dc and any suggestions of difficulty breathing will call an ambulance to cover themselves.

Shepherdspieisminging · 25/11/2018 16:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Threadastaire · 25/11/2018 16:37

Jassyradlet Im a social worker and I don't and never would allow people to record me in meetings, not for the reasons you think though. I don't like my voice recorded for starters (who does?) It serves no purpose (it can't be used in as evidence, once a recording has left the room who can say who is on it?) But most importantly, because in my experience the only place that recordings/video/photos go is on sodding Facebook.
If anyone is worried about a meeting, ask to take notes and for the person chairing the meeting to read and sign them at the end to agree it's an accurate record.

JassyRadlett · 25/11/2018 17:27

This is honestly fascinating and eye-opening to me. I’m in a field where recording meetings with both parties’ consent is pretty usual, in a number of contexts, not with an eye to legal proceedings but to ensure there was an absolutely accurate record of the meeting - something no note taker can ever hope to achieve. Particularly useful where there is a real or perceived power imbalance.

From my perspective, the explanations for not recording meetings with social services sound adversarial and paranoid by turns, but I accept that’s the result of my own experiences. I have none with social services.

Do most social services interactions have impartial chairs for the meetings? I didn’t know that either, it sounds really resource intensive.

plaidlife · 25/11/2018 17:49

jassy Recording people isn't a normal part of life, I have never recorded anybody doing anything in my life, not a doctor, lawyer, teacher, nurse, cake maker, child minder, shop assistant, no one doing anything.
The only time I have participated in recording is during police interviews, which are done in a very controlled environment.
Significant child protection meetings will have an independent chair and a record taker.
A first meeting in someone's house is a conversation and information gathering process there would likely be one or two social workers. Most of these first meetings will not go any further than a brief written assessment that OP can request a copy of.

Shepherdspieisminging · 25/11/2018 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FearLoveAndTheTimeMachine · 25/11/2018 17:58

Shepherdspieisminging and those sites often publicise the recordings and put social workers at risk. As in, literally list the social worker’s name, address, workplace, post a video and picture of them, along with a fabricated ‘this bitch stole my kids’ story. Social workers do get attacked in their line of work and anyone increasing risk by trying to record them would be looked at askance!

JassyRadlett · 25/11/2018 18:16

jassy Recording people isn't a normal part of life, I have never recorded anybody doing anything in my life, not a doctor, lawyer, teacher, nurse, cake maker, child minder, shop assistant, no one doing anything.

A little bit of reductio ad absurdum always helps an argument along, doesn’t it?

I mentioned something that was relatively usual in my professional life - clearly not in all professional lives, but equally a ‘normal part of life’ for some people in aspects of their working lives - where it reduces, not increases, risk.

I allowed that my experience wasn’t universal, which is why I was surprised by the adversarial response it elicited in so many people on this thread.

Shepherdspieisminging · 25/11/2018 18:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Charmlight · 25/11/2018 18:43

Social Services are not looking for work are they?! They’ve plenty to do.
When they see all is well, I’m sure they’ll be only too pleased to signpost as required, and close the case.
A lot of over reacting and flame fanning here.

Charmlight · 25/11/2018 18:47

Shepherdspieisminging
Bravo