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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
MarvinMarvinson · 22/11/2018 21:11

Definitely not 'just reading books' for our training. 6 weeks worth here and you have to pass 2 tests before you are allowed on the phones without supervision. And then you're constantly audited. The computer system IS crude but we are expected to use our critical thinking alongside it and not just blindly follow it. We also have nurses on hand for advice. They also constantly watch where are calls go and open the files to check the outcome. I'm wondering which part of the country all of you live with these terrible experiences.

Redgreencoverplant · 22/11/2018 21:14

I rang 111 once and was told to take DS to A&E. She explained that as soon as that advice is given if you don't go then a referral is made so it seems to be standard practice.

newtothisriver · 22/11/2018 21:16

DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason.

That was a mistake. You get a call from SS you co operate.

The complaint is an entirely different matter.

The comment about not being a SS family Hmm

CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack · 22/11/2018 21:18

I've been dairy free for the last 10 weeks. It hasn't helped the little one's symptoms at all :/

When the baby was only a week old the OP starts changing her diet, and with no professional advice to do so. This makes me think the OP is determined that something is wrong, or is really struggling to look after her baby.

Its also important to note her DH was in bed, ill and drowsy when she is phoning for help - as though she cant cope on her own.

mcmooberry · 22/11/2018 21:21

I've not rtft just the first few pages and, as usual, am shocked by how unpleasant people can be. The symptoms of a cold in a young baby can be extremely alarming and it's very hard to know if your baby has something more serious going on so it's perfectly reasonable to call 111 as often as you need to. I feel nothing but sympathy for the OP and outrage as to how that 111 call handler behaved. I think unfortunately once SS are involved you have to play the game although my probable reaction would be to turn into a confrontational fishwife and order them off the premises if this happened to me!! Don't feel ashamed to go back to the Children's centre, you need some adult contact especially in the winter months. Good advice about getting the transcript of the call, I would put a formal complaint in about her and try and not dwell on it too much so it doesn't spoil your experience of early motherhood. xxx

peachgreen · 22/11/2018 21:24

To be honest if 111 tell you to take your baby to A&E and you say you're not going to, I'm not surprised that a Social Services referral is made. Social Services aren't just there to take away babies who are being neglected - they're there to make sure that parents who might not be coping - which, if I were a 111 call handler with a parent who had sought medical attention on several occasions and was now refusing to follow medical advice, I might suspect you were. I don't think it was unreasonable and I think you should not only cooperate with SS but also take any support that you're offered. Parenting is hard.

For the record, I'm not what you defined as "an SS family" (Hmm) - DH and I are both educated professionals with good jobs, we have a comfortable home in a nice area, a happy marriage and a supportive family - and after we had our daughter we were referred to Social Services because I had PND. They were wonderful and I'm not ashamed to have had their help.

JassyRadlett · 22/11/2018 21:28

If you're boob feeding, it's shit for it to happen but sometimes boobs just don't make enough.

It's shit to come to terms with too, but for everyone I know who's kid has had 'silent reflux', or colic, loads were just not getting enough food and were bloody hungry!

This is terrible, terrible advice. Do you work for 111?

Silent reflux is fucking horrible and very easy to tell the difference between SR and a hungry baby. Putting it in quote marks to imply it’s not a real condition is appalling.

Leonie87 · 22/11/2018 21:30

I don’t think 111 is useless. I live in Scotland and here we can only access out of hours services through 111. I’ve had two babies. The first time round I was barely off the bloody phone to 111 and they were great. Never once was I referred to a&, just the out of hours GP.

I remember sitting with my husband in the waiting room, four month old DD on my lap (high temp and shivering - viral infection but the shivering had frightened us) about 1am and looking around at all the other parents with babies and thinking, we are so lucky to have this.

I remember going there with a headache so bad my husband was worried I had meningitis. They saw me straight away, determined that I probably didnt have meningitis, handed me a box of strong ibuprofen which was the only thing that took the pain away.

My experiences have only ever been positive so I just wanted to write a wee positive message.

OP I feel for you. I get what you mean x

Poppylizzyrose · 22/11/2018 21:33

Sorry I haven’t read through the whole thread either.

What was meant by SS family? Confused

Namechanger1404 · 22/11/2018 21:40

I think the problems here are every service is terrified they’ll get it wrong. There’s neglect/abuse (social services) and then sepsis, which the medical services are paranoid about (I work for the NHS) and are highlighting through campaigns how serious it is.

I don’t know how anyone can possibly ‘diagnose’ over the telephone.

It’s incredibly stressful with a new baby who is unwell. As a new mum, you are beside yourself with fear that something will happen to your child. I feel for you OP, you need to speak to the manager of the service 111.

Shepherdspieisminging · 22/11/2018 21:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Momasita · 22/11/2018 21:52

111 has its place but there are massive faults too. Its hugely frustrating.

I really feel for you op you have since nothing wrong and it's always best to err on safe side with a baby. It's awful time of year to have a little defenseless baby with low immunity. Babies can bounce back quickly or go down hill quickly..
I think yiu need the 111 transcript.

I really feel for you.

Momasita · 22/11/2018 21:59

Yes to pp poster when you can have proper nurse to talk too not endless useless questions and call backs.

Op ignore the people trying to ridicule you over a cold.

A cold can turn into something else affect the chest... They have no bloody idea at all. Medics would always prefer you to be safe rather than sorry!

Never feel bad or guilty about double checking your child esp at this tender age.

Cyw2018 · 22/11/2018 22:05

Haven't RTFT

I'm a paramedic, and this is all about duty of car and the paranoia that surrounds discharging duty of care for children, and this is why 111 will NEVER work for children.

Basically NICE (paediatric traffic lights) says that a child under 5 that "appears sick to it's parents" warrants being seen by a HCP (GP or ANP), therefore if you ring up seeking advice for a sick under 5 realistically the only thing they can do is offer a GP Out of hours appointment or advise you to take the child to A&E. The problem comes if you decide not to follow that advise. This is fine if you are an adult and the advice relates to you (you are legally entitled to make a bad decision!!), but when it relates to a child, the person you are calling has duty of care, they won't discharge that duty of care, you as a parent are going against best practice advice (how ever OTT it may seem) and you end up with your situation.

It gets even more complicated when a third party caller makes the 999 call...think minor no/low damage road Traffic collision with tiny baby cocooned in a car seat in one of the cars!! In my career I have had 2 massive rows with control room staff, who have told me I "have" to take the child in to hospital, and to threaten with SS even when nothing is wrong with the child, fortunately when I have escalated it to the shift manager they saw sense. But you can see how easily a jobs worth or stressed 111 worker can end up creating the situation you are in.

Sorry I'm babbling now (too much mulled wine).

OP please remember that the report to SS is in strictest confidence, and whilst any HCP facilitating the baby groups my know about it, none of the other parents there will, so please don't isolate yourself.

When you escalate you complaint (which I really hope you do) please be careful to word it in such a way that it isn't overly a personal attack at the (shitty) call taker. Management love complaints about attitude as they can have go at the individual and don't have to get to the root of the problem which is the ridiculous bureaucracy which caused it all in the first place!!

Balaboosteh · 22/11/2018 22:13

My darling you sound overwealmed. It’s normal. You have to understand that if you keep asking for help, you will get it! You cannot then protest that you are “not an SS family” - whatever that means. New parenthood just is an overwhelming experience. Please be patient with people who may be misguided but who are trying to help and protect your baby. I have been where you are now. All will be well.

ReflectionsofParadise · 22/11/2018 22:41

Oddly enough @JassyRadlett if you r.t.f.f.t you'll see that was in response to OPs comment about earlier mistaken diagnosis from a gp about colic.

I was not implying it's a fake condition at all, I was saying that in almost all of my friend's cases it turned out the kids were just being under fed as they couldn't monitor how much milk they were getting and assumed their latch was ok, their supply was enough, their milk was satiating enough. When. It. Wasn't.

Drs are so scared to go against 'breast is best' that they wont even consider suggesting they try supplementing at the same time as other treatments to resolve the issue. Even in the instances of some of my friends where the baby was falling percentiles and no one even raised it as a concern 😳

It also was not about OPs 111 call about a COLD. So wtf are you even talking about?

Spanglylycra · 22/11/2018 22:49

I think you are getting a hard time OP. To have a cold that young is worrying and it seems to have been going on a while I would be worried.

The 111 handler sounds ridiculous, you didn't ignore their advice they said they weren't in danger so you said you would go to A&E if things changed.

I'd stay as calm as you can and hopefully social services will see there is t an issue with you, but use them to try and get a respiratory referral if you are really worried about the continued cold.

I would look and see what the 111 complaints process and who is commissioning them - assume your CCG and complain to both.

Momasita · 22/11/2018 22:50

Interesting about 111 duty of care I have had to beg the to get me out of hours appt for sick dc.

HeckyPeck · 22/11/2018 22:56

I've just come out of hospital with my 2nd child, 15 months old, and I can tell you now the symptoms which had her rushed from an ambulance (called by 111) and straight into resus were only very subtlely different from the symptoms that have seen me sit in A&E "for nothing" for hours with my first.

Absolutely this.

MuncheysMummy · 22/11/2018 23:12

To be honest your biggest mistakes are continuously calling 111 for a cold 🙄 you have by your own admission wasted valuable time in ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY department (the clue is in the name!) at least 3 times so far! Not to mention the ambulance whose time you wasted too, I understand your worry 8 really do I have a little one with health issues but honest to god you must stop calling 111 every time your baby has a cold it’s crackers and a massive misuse of the over stretched to breaking point NHS.

Mascarponeandwine · 22/11/2018 23:16

I called 111 about something and they said wait 24 hours and then phone your go surgery. I said are you sure that’s the right advice for someone with the pre existing condition I had? She said I dunno I’m not a medical person.Confused then asked me if I needed an appointment as she didn’t have a clue. I said yes and she made one with the out of hours gp.

JassyRadlett · 22/11/2018 23:25

So wtf are you even talking about?

I was talking about your total bollocks about ‘sometimes boobs just don’t make enough’ (vanishingly rare) and yes, your curious decision to put silent reflux in quote marks while not doing the same for other conditions, and suggesting that mostly it’s hungry babies.

Hope that helps clear up your confusion.

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 23:34

6 weeks training. Wow how intensive- not.

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 23:36

Condoms pack it in. Another daft, reaching comment.

JudasPrudy · 22/11/2018 23:43

I think the best thing you could do right now is ring your health visitor tomorrow and ask her advice about your baby's ongoing viral infection and the possibility that you have PND/anxiety as mentioned in your OP. Also ask for their support with the SS referral. If you don't know your HV then maybe call in with the GP to discuss. Building up a relationship with the HCPs responsible for your child's care is really useful in situations like this where you're worried about your child's health and also they can back up that they have no concerns about your parenting to the SW.

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