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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack · 22/11/2018 19:54

OP you do seem resistant to any help.

I've been dairy free for the last 10 weeks. It hasn't helped the little one's symptoms at all :/

If anything you sound fussy and are determined there is something wrong.

SinkGirl · 22/11/2018 19:54

I'm sorry OP but you are repeatedly using a&e and 111 for a cold

Nope.

She took a 9 day old baby to A&E because it was ill and she wasn’t sure how serious it was (ever seen a tiny baby struggling to breathe? It’s terrifying).

Then 111 sent her to A&E and she was mocked for being there.

Then she refused to attend A&E and she was referred to SS for it.

Calling 111 is literally what you are supposed to do. This information is right there on the NHS website. Call 111, and that’s it’s especially important to get advice under 12 weeks. (Someone earlier in the thread denied this advice exists - so here it is)

111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)
SinkGirl · 22/11/2018 19:55

If anything you sound fussy and are determined there is something wrong.

Based on what? Christ alive, this thread is ridiculous.

Innocentconglomeration · 22/11/2018 19:56

At 9 days, are you not supposed to go straight back to the ward where you had the baby? That was the advice when I had mine although I accept it may have changed.

Mishappening · 22/11/2018 20:01

We are not a SS family. - you might like to rethink that statement. As a retired SW I can absolutely assure you that child neglect is present in all levels of society and education.

However, I do understand your frustration with 111, which I share. I have had cause to contact them several times recently and they are clearly following a very crude algorithm on their screens and have no knowledge of their own to bring to the task. What is so frustrating is that they say they will get an advisor to ring you back, at which point, after a lengthy wait for the call, you go through the identical rigmarole all over again. The advisor turns out to be a non-medic who then says they will contact a doctor. Enter doctor on the phone (after another long wait) and - guess what? - he goes through it all again. The end result on each occasion was a visit from the doctor several hours later - middle of the night by then!

It is not an efficient service; this is one of the reasons for crowded A&E departments - 111 always errs on the safe side.

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 20:02

I don’t think so Innocent, I thought once discharged a baby couldn’t go back onto a maternity unit due to cross infection.

Blackness78 · 22/11/2018 20:05

Both me and DH are professionals

Rule 1# Please stop thinking you are above reproach, just because you are a professional.

Innocentconglomeration · 22/11/2018 20:05

Fair enough - I remember taking DD back to the ward at less than a week old and we were readmitted but that was due to jaundice

Mishappening · 22/11/2018 20:06

And just to add - referral to SS is reasonable where the 111 person has reason to think that neglect or abuse might be present. She would have been failing in her duty not to do so under the relevant circumstances. I do think however that her logic in this instance was not sound.

RatRolyPoly · 22/11/2018 20:06

I've been dairy free for the last 10 weeks. It hasn't helped the little one's symptoms at all :/

If anything you sound fussy and are determined there is something wrong.

You're twisting any little thing you can to let you put the boot into her some more.

She sounds like a perfectly normal mother, if a little mortified at having anything to do with ss. And if you've never had anything to do with ss you might well not know it's unjustly stigmatised.

Innocentconglomeration · 22/11/2018 20:11

Surely at 9 days you would still be seeing the midwife? From memory I think they discharged around 12/14 days?

OurMiracle1106 · 22/11/2018 20:14

The thing with social services is they will have received a referral that probably states “advice given to parent to attend a and e with young baby as baby is struggling to breathe, parent informs will monitor and take child if it worsens” or similar.

If someone can not breathe they of course need to be seen. If however it just sounds laboured then that’s normal

Refusing to cooperate will only raise further concerns if I’m honest.

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 20:15

Maybe it depends on the individual hospitals rules innocent. I just known I had a gynaecology op short after delivery and whilst it theatre the maternity unit wouldn’t put my baby in their nursery to look after siting cross infection.

I agree RatRollyPolly, definitely putting the boot in. I would also be mortified if I had to have something to do with SS.

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 20:17

I meant ‘in’ theatre a ‘citing’.

Ffiffime · 22/11/2018 20:29

They’re awful, I avoid at all costs.
My daughter fell down two steps once. They told my I was a safeguarding concern for not using baby gates and told me they’d be ringing a&zee to make sure I got there!!
They’re awful awful awful 😡

ReflectionsofParadise · 22/11/2018 20:31

@discopisco 12 pages deep and you still don't get it?

They HAD to refer you. It is PROCEDURE. No one cares if it was deserved or not. It is box ticking and they have to do it. Especially how you handled the call with 111.

Oh and if your kid is still crying, even after 'silent reflux' diagnosis, ruling out cmpa etc you might want to consider that baby is not getting enough milk and is still hungry as hell all the time (that is normally the last point of call for them to investigate when it should be the first!)

If you're boob feeding, it's shit for it to happen but sometimes boobs just don't make enough.

It's shit to come to terms with too, but for everyone I know who's kid has had 'silent reflux', or colic, loads were just not getting enough food and were bloody hungry!

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 22/11/2018 20:33

OP: You have had some good advice here about social services procedure.

It sounds to me as though social services have recieved the referral, made initial contact with you and then dealt with it by signposting you to a universal service (Sure Start Centre).
If so, then this could already be the end of it.

In your position, I would be tempted to call social services and ask them to clarify the current position with your case.
Ask if the case is closed or if you are still awaiting an initial assessment.
It goes without saying that you should be really cheerful and polite during that phone call.

Everyone is a social services family. Seriously; as you get to know more Mums you will find that a lot of people have a story just like yours of something triggering a referral and social services coming to check things over.

It has happened to me twice and I consider myself pretty competent.
Most of the time it ends there although, a pp have said, it has actually been known for their presence to be useful in a crisis Wink

Thats not to down play the absolute terror induced by their involvement. On Mumsnet people will say "Oh just work with them, theres nothing to worry about" but everyone I know in real life would be rattled by the situation.

Flowers for you OP. Hope baby feels better soon.

Dotty1970 · 22/11/2018 20:48

Not a "social services family" and "we are professionals" ...... Whether you are or not a 'ss family' is irrelevant!
Also.... so do 'professionals' have nothing to do with social services or neglect etc their children (not saying you do, just commenting on your statement).

willstarttomorrow · 22/11/2018 20:51

As a social worker I can assure that there is no such thing as a 'ss family'. There are lots of crazy referrals from professionals passing the decision on. There are also lots of referrals which are valid and we offer lots of support/ refer on for support. This is not exclusive to the lower classes because actually all children have the right to be kept safe. I am a child's social worker (and whilst this may not be relevant in your case) I have seen horrific neglect and abuse from middle class parents. I have a duty to go out and establish if referrals are valid. I explain to parents that unfortunately in the city I work in children are suffering neglect/abuse and it is my job to establish if support is needed. Most understand this and appreciate there is a system in place to ensure child safety and offer support to families in need. You obviously disagree.

pleasesleepinyourownbed · 22/11/2018 20:51

Babies get colds, have colic, reflux etc. The list is endless. You have to suck it up & deal with it whether your anxious or not. Believe me.. I know. You can't call OOH all the time & have endless trips to the GP without good reason. You really need to invest in a snot sucker & try & calm down & get some help/advice on first time mum anxiety. It doesn't get any easier for a while so you should try & get on top of this now.

pleasesleepinyourownbed · 22/11/2018 20:55

Posted too soon. Just explain to SS you are a first time mum & very anxious. Better to communicate with them & they may be able to help. Also speak to your HV.

MsTSwift · 22/11/2018 20:59

Re the ss type family comment the families I know who are really really struggling and could do with ss involvement the parents are in both cases doctors and dentists

Veganfortheanimals · 22/11/2018 21:01

Can't say I'm suprised tbh...I know 2 people who do that 111 job...and I think how the actual f did they get that job...one of them told me her training was just reading through some books on procedure ..that sort of put me off ever using it....I just think if such a system is set up it should at least be a nurse on the end of the phone

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 21:02

There’s no need to shout Reflection. The 111 operator was totally unprofessional.

Oh and my eldest had silent reflux, my youngest colic, both breastfed and thrived.

This attitude that SS always know what they’re doing is totally wrong. This has been proven time and time again. They hardly covered themselves in glory with Baby P or the Rotherham grooming scandle did they.

I know it’s annectdotal which seems to be frowned on on MN, but I know of a single parent who was worn out dealing with a very demanding baby and an hyperactive toddler. A well meaning friend suggested that SS may be able to provide her with good advice. They were awful and it took 2 years to get rid of them even though they admitted they had no concerns. . All they did was make her life more stressful.

Dottierichardson · 22/11/2018 21:08

Haven't read through the thread OP so apologies if someone's mentioned this, but one thing that's odd is that the call handler refused to put you through to a manager. I rang back the service when I had a problem with them, and said I wanted to speak to a supervisor to make a formal complaint about the service. I was called back an hour or so later, the complaint was then logged, some time later I was sent a letter confirming a complaint was being processed. Some time after that I received notification that the complaint had been upheld and would feed into future training. So you can pursue things that way.

The issue is not just that the handler referred you to SS - unfortunate abbreviation that - but that the 111 doctor agreed it was unnecessary. In future get names of everyone you speak to and note dates/times and follow up. It's supposed to be an advice line poor or inappropriate responses will discourage others from using the service when they may most need it. You can support the NHS and still be critical of services.

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