Females have to consider risk, far more than males?

[Huskylover1]

It's suddenly hit me, how DH and I have vastly different experiences of life, even though we live in the same place and go to the same places (obviously).

After a conversation, it has occurred to me, that I have been risk assessing most of what I do, for my entire adult life. DH says I worry too much, whereas I just say that I'm sensible!

For example, when I walk the dogs at night, I stick to well lit areas. If I have to park in a car park at night, I park near the exit and where it's well lit. I wouldn't answer the door at 3am, if I was home alone. If I was walking home in the dark, I would take a well lit route, and never cut across a dark park or in the woods. You get my drift.

DH wouldn't think about any of this. He goes where he wants, when he wants, without any thoughts to safety. He's a very big man, and I'd say if another man set on him, it would be extremely unlikely that DH would not win. He knows how to fight (trained fighting is part of his job). He just isn't scared of anything or anyone.

We were talking one night, and I remarked at how absolutely lovely it must be, to be like him : never having to fear anything. He replied that I was just a worrier and he didn't seem to get my point at all. I really don't think I am a worrier. I think that females have to think about things that men don't. I think I've risk assessed my whole adult life, often without even realising.

He didn't seem to understand my point at all.

Also the gender differences are negligible, there's no need for women have a victim mentality & it's not only men who can be violent - The only time I have been attacked was by another female in broad daylight (she came up to me on the street and punched me in the face, no idea who she was or why!)

@LittleKitty1985 - I'm not sure what you mean by 'the gender differences are negligible' - you were punched by a woman, unfortunately, but almost all violent/sexual assault is carried out by men.

SpaghettiJumper

What would telling men to avoid the area achieve the rapist has already shown little regard for rule breaking and most do it in a position they feel comfortable/confident and not in front of others. So saying hey men dont go here wont stop anything but advising women theres an attacker that seems comfortable in this area so be careful until hes caught is sensible Imo.

'What would telling men to avoid the area achieve the rapist has already shown little regard for rule breaking and most do it in a position they feel comfortable/confident and not in front of others. So saying hey men dont go here wont stop anything but advising women theres an attacker that seems comfortable in this area so be careful until hes caught is sensible Imo.'

Because if you advise men not to go to the area then any man who does go there is a suspect and can be questioned.

Yes, that seems sensible. Maybe self defence was the wrong choice of words - I just felt it may be helpful for the OP to do something practical but as I don’t have any experience of this and neither do any of the woman I know, I could well be wrong.

Ds1 goes nightclubbing and I worry about him being the victim of a drunken argument or attack. I don't worry about him getting his drink spiked, being sexually assaulted or raped, kidnapped or lured somewhere and murdered. I also don't worry about a girlfriend beating him up or doing something weird to him.

I've advised him to stay together with his friends at all times and to avoid any people who start to act up, but that's about it. It's more complicated keeping yourself safe when you're female.

It sounds weird but I had someone attempt to attack me in the street and now I'm much less afraid. It was early evening, I had been careful about taking lit routes except for one road which I had to go down to get to my destination, I had heard him so crossed diagonally like you are supposed to and went for his eyes as he came at me with my nails at the time very long sharp nail at which point he clearly decided I was likely to fight too much.

After a couple of weeks of being a nervous wreck and having people tell me I had 'fought him off wrong' (although successfully!), mentioning that I had been wearing a skirt and what was I doing walking around without and escort (in a busy area of London at not even 8pm!) I've taken the attitude of fuck that shit. I'm not going to be constantly fearful when it could happen anyway and everyone is going to make you feel like shit about it for not doing all the right steps.

I don't think men are 'carefree' - as Pan has said they are at risk of a lot of violence. My DH has been randomly set upon when he was younger and out with friends, and as a police officer now sees a lot of men who've been victims of that kind of attack. But I do wonder if part of the reason is that they are there in the places things like muggings happen, whereas women generally aren't, because fundamentally they are too afraid.

Eg. muggers waiting in an underpass at 10pm, going to demand phone and wallet from the first person that comes through - I doubt they have any objection to mugging a woman, it's just that women are far less likely to be in an underpass at 10pm. So if they mug 6 men and 1 woman, it's probably an accurate reflection of underpass demographics. Because the bottom line is men may well be scared of being beaten up or mugged, but they are mostly, deep-down, not afraid they might actually be killed when out and about. If I genuinely thought the worst that was likely to happen was being mugged I'd probably risk underpasses at night as well.

This is obviously not denying that horrific things do happen to men too. It's just a vanishingly small risk compared to how often it happens to women.

To be fair OP, I think a lot of men wouldn't win in a fight against your average other bloke. I see a couple of them on here saying they do the same things as you.

As for myself I don't do half the things on the list a pp posted, but then again I know I'm faster than your average man, plus a couple of other advantages so I feel pretty confident out and about. Also, through my sport I know a good number of women who could floor some of the strongest men, so I doubt they feel that way either.

The thing is through, there will always be more men than women who would be able to compete against the stronger half of society (male or female), so women are bound to be more likely to be anxious about that. It's biology, we're more likely to be weaker. Not all of us are, but we're more likely to be than men. But many men are too.

So I don't really think it's "men's fault", so to speak, that they're less generally less anxious. They're just generally stronger. That's the correlation.

We have got a long way to go before the evolutionary and patriarchal reality of male violence is eradicated though. I think teaching our boys that being physically dominant is not a commendable trait is the way to go. I mean we could teach girls to be strong and violent, but I think the former will be nicer for everyone

Men commit the vast majority of crime but are also more likely to be victims of violent attack than women

I remember at our old place (built up, lots of winding alleyways) DH walked to the petrol station for bread and milk at about 22:00. He came back and told me he’d been listening to his music and distracted and almost tripped over a woman entering the alleyway he was leaving. She turned and ran a different way.

He was surprised when I told him that I’d have done the same if I didn’t know him - DH is tall and broad (size 13-14 feet) and would scare the hell out of me appearing suddenly out of an alley at night! I also pointed out that I would never feel safe being distracted by earphones after dark! I think he expected me to agree the poor woman was nuts, but agreed that he could see why women would be wary of strange men in alleyways.

SpaghettiJumper I haven’t. I can’t think of a single female friend or acquaintance who has told me that she has been sexually assaulted. Received sexually inappropriate comments, yes, but not been attacked or put in fear of physical attack.

Just to come back to the point about men often contributing to their own victimhood: there was a gang of around a dozen of us who knocked around together. Apart from one notable exception - who scared the life out of me and lots of other people - none of us behaved violently.

Pretty much every single one of us was randomly attacked at some point in our teens/early adulthood. I was randomly headbutted and pushed in the street, and on one memorable occasion someone took a big handful of the apple crumble I was carrying and threw it in my face. At the other end of the scale, a friend was jumped by a gang and given such a kicking he lost teeth and was hospitalised (it later turned out that this was a case of mistaken identity, and unbelievably, two of the gang members sought him out and apologised).

These were common occurrences and you had to have your wits about you every time you left the house. We grew up on a rough estate so the edgy feeling never left you, but it was much worse if you were in the 'wrong' part of town. Yes these assaults were committed by men, but they weren't committed or instigated by us, and the undercurrent that I get from some posters on here that there's an element of dessert to all this based on a shared chromosomal persuasion with our assailants sticks in the craw a bit

This is not to say that women aren't scared too. I wouldn't try to deny anyone's lived experience, and I can't imagine what it's like leaving the house in the knowledge that you may be sexually assaulted or worse. But please try to recognise that the situation is pretty shit if you're a non-violent feller too.

I'm really happy to hear you've not been assaulted. I think if you asked your friends you'd be very surprised how many of them have experienced some form of sexual violence. Most of the women I know who've been assaulted were assaulted by friends or partners.

And yet young males are much more likely to be assaulted. Your DH is just lucky to be big.

Well this is bollocks for starters, as a man, I am way more likely to be a victim of random violence then a women is. In fact I have been a victim twice of physical assault on the street.

Men are more likely to be physically assaulted, but women more likely to be sexually assaulted.

I actually couldn't tell you how many times I've been sexually assualted. There were at least 3 incidents before I reached the age of 16, and lots more since.

'Yes these assaults were committed by men, but they weren't committed or instigated by us, and the undercurrent that I get from some posters on here that there's an element of dessert to all this based on a shared chromosomal persuasion with our assailants sticks in the craw a bit'

Some posters were referring to the fact that a lot of the violence men experience is down to fights - ones they actively participate in. That doesn't mean that any man deserves to be beaten up. Another poster was making out that some of the violence is down to women egging men on, which may be the case, but it's pretty lame to use 'Jane told me to do it' as an excuse for punching someone - on the scale of things, egging someone is bad behaviour but it's nowhere near actually assaulting/raping someone.

when there is a spate of rapes/assaults in a particular area, carried out a by a man, women are warned to avoid certain areas, not to walk late at night etc. In that situation, women are not committing any crimes, so why are they told to do something different? Why aren't men told to avoid the area, to give women peace of mind? Oh yes, because we can't annoy men, can we?

And I've never heard of a man being blamed for being a victim because he opted to walk down an alleyway at night, either.

Some posters were referring to the fact that a lot of the violence men experience is down to fights - ones they actively participate in

'Fights', in my experience, generally involve an assailant, and someone defending themselves. Situations in which two men agree to have a mutual barney on equal terms are really rare (it does happen occasionally).

Another poster was making out that some of the violence is down to women egging men on, which may be the case, but it's pretty lame to use 'Jane told me to do it' as an excuse for punching someone - on the scale of things, egging someone is bad behaviour but it's nowhere near actually assaulting/raping someone.

I agree that this is a crock of shit (in more than one way - I've never known it happen, and to the extent that it does it's a pathetic excuse for violence)

According to ONS about 13% of rapes are carried out by a stranger, the vast majority are by people known to the victim. Ex partners mostly.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017#how-are-victims-and-perpetrators-related

It's an awful fact that women should probably be more afraid of the person waiting for them at home rather than the possible predators on the walk home.

Some posters were referring to the fact that a lot of the violence men experience is down to fights - ones they actively participate in. That doesn't mean that any man deserves to be beaten up

But that's not what I was saying. And I even explained that once already since that post.

It can so tiresome trying to have discussions on mumsnet when people seem to wilfully misunderstand or misrepresent almost everything you post. You just end up repeatedly explaining what was quite a clear point in the first place.

According to ONS about 13% of rapes are carried out by a stranger, the vast majority are by people known to the victim. Ex partners mostly.

I think that's maybe why some women (like me) don't tend to worry as much about going out alone etc. Because being attacked by a random stranger really is pretty unlikely. We are not always logical in assessing risk. I'm guessing we are far more likely to be badly hurt in a car accident than badly hurt by an attacker, and yet most of us still happily get in cars.

There's a huge gender difference in risk aversion, which we're trained into pretty much from birth.

One good comparison is to look at the precautions that the average heterosexual woman takes before first meeting a man she'd met online dating, vs the precautions the average gay man takes before meeting up. Anecdotally there's a big difference in level of precautions but the only difference in risk is that a gay man may have a 50/50 chance of being as strong as the man he's meeting (although that's no help against a spiked drink).

It’s also not just about unprovocted attacks on the street, women have to worry about the men they befriend or let into their beds. Most women are murdered and/or raped by a man they know.

Men are more likely to be physically assaulted, but women more likely to be sexually assaulted.

I actually couldn't tell you how many times I've been sexually assualted. There were at least 3 incidents before I reached the age of 16, and lots more since.

Why does it have to be a competition? Can't we just agree it is all shit for the victims?

I joined this thread to challenge the assertion by the OP that men don't have to worry about being attacked or engage in any kind of risk evaluation when out and about. I, and a few others have stated otherwise and provided supporting anecdotes.

I have no idea what it is like to be sexually assaulted and I will not pretend to either. I'm very sorry it has happened to you. However, I have a very good idea of experiencing the sheer agony of being kicked so fucking hard in the side of the face that you feel your cheekbone and eye socket fracture and waking up in a pool of my own piss and blood and feeling the terror of not being able to see out of one eye. I was picked on that night because I was alone minding my own business walking home and was set upon by a bunch of arseholes who caught me by surprise. Most of my male mates have either been assaulted or have had very near misses over the years. Someone spouting stats that x gets it worse then y is not really great comfort to those who have been victims of assault, and there are quite a few of us.

Men actively seek out women to attack - they either identify a woman and spike her drink, or chat to her and act friendly so they can walk her home and rape her or they actually befriend/start a relationship with a woman and then attack/rape her or they stalk and harass her over long periods of time. I'd imagine it's very rare for a man to do that to another man - a lot of male on male violence is very spur of the moment and contained. The way men engage in violence with other men tends to be a show of force situation where more often male on female violence is more predator/prey situation - women can't necessarily protect themselves because the tactics men use are not obvious (punching/shouting) - they're much more subtle. Of the women I know who've been raped, only one reported it (and he was convicted). Every other woman, including me, felt that there was no point.