Boss back from maternity leave, who is being unreasonable?

[florafaunaandotherthings1]

Hi. I'm struggling to see who is being unreasonable here. My boss went on maternity leave for 6 months and has now returned. I stepped into her role while she was away and have now returned to my old role. It's an admin/ co-ordination role without going into too much detail. While she was away I made some changes which made everything run more smoothly. She has now returned and after trying the changes for a while she is returning to how she did it before. I am finding it very frustrating as I know the other way was better. I approached our boss but he just said that I'd done a good job and my colleague would keep any changes if they were worth keeping. Hes not really been any help. I'm so frustrated but I don't know what to do!

"Bollocks. When you’re doing a job, it’s your job - you do it as you see fit."

Well, yes, as long as that's fine for your own boss. What you can't do is implement permanent changes that the person whose job it is permanently would be bound by. Of course, you can do certain small things your own way, but you can't make big changes. There is a difference between a temporary and a permanent position.

"Sadly the civil service way of grade trumps everything including logic, intelligence or even fact, has ground down my confidence so I often feel I need someone to “approve” my work before I send it out etc."

Thankfully, I've only done one year at the civil service, but I have to say that just being at the bottom of the pile has done this for me. I'm probably seen as not very proactive or confident because this wasn't allowed in my first few jobs. It's like I was trained the wrong way really.

You didn't "step up" into her role. You talk of your team as your friends- that's not how leadership works.

Being friendly and being friends are far apart. One is professional and one not.

Your friends like having their friend as their boss.

If you'd been THAT good your boss's boss would have backed you or created a role. But they didn't.

And your comment about your boss having a 3rd baby and not coming back was nasty.

Karma will get you. You lack insight into your behaviour.

"Behaving badly after a period of acting up is similar to throwing a tantrum in the workplace because you didn't get a promotion you went for. It shows immaturity and lack of judgement. The way to successfully complete your acting up/temporary promotion is to hand it back over with dignity and respect. That's the behaviour that would have defined you as worthy of promotion." Very well put - and the exact opposite of how op has acted.

"But arguing, going to bigger bosses, involving the team is NOT management material. Are you really ready??" Agreed not ready imo.

VenusInSpurs - op needs to move fast imo and ime civil service word soon gets about and they're such a big employer the reach is outside civil service too as ex employees tend to stay in touch or end up working for the same private employers often.

Tatiana - civil service is old fashioned but generally ime not as sexist as other "industries" (depending on which sector within civil service - but many are quite female dominated) implementing new procedures, improving efficiency is and can be be done but as in ANY industry there are accepted ways of doing so and even of dealing with difficult bosses - but bitching about your immediate boss to all & sundry inc going over their head with a petty matter is NEVER a good idea.

"But it's okay to tear down another woman who is a manager and try to use her maternity against her?" Exactly that's far more sexist!

"OP improved some procedures and team morale" remember we've only ops word that these WERE improved. Her manager - with more knowledge and experience - may know that the changes op made will have negative impacts elsewhere in the way things work. I've had more junior members of staff suggest certain ideas as improvements and on the surface they may seem more efficient but as a manager I knew these changes would cause a difficulty elsewhere.

"would get you slapped down in every company I've worked for" yep! That's been my experience too and I've worked civil service, large corporates & small family businesses. It's just not an acceptable way to behave - and male employees acting like this would also be slapped down!

You're only an EO? so it's possible you've gone straight into that grade and never had a promotion that's a fairly low grade, at most only one promotion, and boss must be at least an SEO or higher? Not the way to progress in civil service at all I'm afraid. Or indeed anywhere.

There are ways of putting across why you think doing it X way is better - slating the old way and the people doing it that way is not one of them.

You need to show why it's an improvement and how it helps EVERYONE affected by the change not just those in your dept. And back that up with hard data.

but bitching about your immediate boss to all & sundry inc going over their head with a petty matter is NEVER a good idea

If you’re just going to make shit up, you may as well invent your own thread.

OP improved some procedures and team morale" remember we've only ops word that these WERE improved.

Right, so now you’re calling the OP a liar.

No I'm saying we only have op's perspective/opinion - which is true of all threads.

And I'm certainly not the only one who understood op's actions to be basically yes bitching - unnecessarily and without reservation criticising her boss to colleagues and to the bosses boss. That's not an acceptable way to behave.

Yes and what that basically means whether it’s a thread about a job, an abusive husband or a sex offence, is that you don’t really believe her.

And I'm certainly not the only one who understood op's actions to be basically yes bitching

You’re not the only one to invent scenarios, but she says nothing about that in the text.

She is the boss,you are the underling.

That's NOT what I mean at all. I understand that people's perspectives are coloured by various factors which influence their opinions.

In this case work experience. Op may well with her experience thus far believe that the changes she made were improvements - but she doesn't have the experience that the manager does to know the full effects throughout the dept/organisation. So to op they may well appear to be improvements but the manager has different experiences and thus a different perspective.

It's understanding these nuances that come with experience - life and work.

I'll wager those of us with management experience commenting on the thread and thinking this may well be the case are probable older and more experienced than op.

That's why mn can be so useful. You get the benefit of posters with more experience - in life, in different work areas, in personal experiences...

I totally get where you're coming from. In her absence you've stepped up and done a fab job, and now she's back it's probably a bit soul destroying that she is undoing many of the positive changes and it also sounds like you're struggling to adjust to no longer being in charge and trying to push the boundaries with her like you possibly wouldn't have done before.

This says to me it's time for you to move on. You've improved your skills and are now in a position where you need the next step up. However you need to accept that it won't be into your manager's role, it will need to be elsewhere.

I think despite how hard it is you also need to remember that as others have said, returning from mat leave is hard. Your boss will no doubt not be getting as much sleep as she used to, explaining the snappyness, and might be racked with feelings of guilt at leaving her child and insecurity and worries around her job after being away for so long. She'll be keen to get back to it and demonstrate to her manager that she is still worthy of the role, and having you challenge her and trying to make your way look better really isn't going to help with that.

Why do people just take it as read that the manager is in the position because of competence and experience? Maybe she is, but some managers are utterly useless and aren’t worth the title or the salary, and are only there by virtue of having been in the company a long time. I’m on the OP’s side. It’s not bitching to criticise the manager if they’re genuinely doing a shit job, it’s stating a fact!

Also why should the OP have to be sympathetic and understanding because her manager’s been on mat leave? Perhaps she just isn’t worthy of the job. Why should OP tiptoe around when, let’s be frank, now is actually a great tactical time oust the boss if they’re genuinely not up to the job

I’m a G7. You absolutely won’t have your card marked. Said by someone who hasn’t the first idea of how CS recruitment & promotion exercises work. What a bloody stupid thing to say. Ignore it OP. It’s bullshit.

Actually Harvey that was me that says that.

While I accept it won't be an "official" thing I come from a long line of civil servants inc some quite senior ones and worked in the civil service for several years myself in several different depts and locations in U.K. And overseas.

That's been my experience of working in the service and certainly have heard similar from relatives who have and some who still do work in it.

Word of mouth is very much a part of working in the service.

The first round of CS recruitment/promotion is done blind. The panel who review applications to assess wether they get an interview doesn’t know who they are. If they are invited for interview then we do get to see personal details and a line manager assessment if one has been requested. A LM assessment however is not usually required. I’ve never been involved in a recruitment exercise where LM assessments were asked for or considered. And I’ve done a lot of them.

Card marked though? As if there is some sort of network where we are all informed of people who might be a bit difficult or we shouldn’t employ? Total bollocks. Does not happen.

Not any more it isn’t Graphista it’s all blind and anonymous. I suspect to stop the scenario you describe from happening. Whilst I appreciate word of mouth might have some value, it could discriminate against some excellent candidates. I’d prefer to test them at interview rather than take someone else’s word when I’m not clear as to their motivation.

I’ve got over 30 years CS service. Word of mouth should absolutely not be a thing. It contradicts every element of the CS recruitment policy. What are you doing to report it and change things? As a CS you should not be accepting it.

I've covered multiple maternity leaves or temporary roles between someone getting fired and a new director being pulled in.

It sounds like most of the ones I managed where you make some slight changes based on making it more efficient or due to changes that occur in the year only for them to return and get their feathers ruffled.

For me I knew it was a temporary job and that they would probably try to undo the processes I put in.

In one job IT were completely changing the system so all images are going to be removed. Because of the lady I was covering had bad habits I worked with them to ensure that we had created a system even they would agree on. If she had been there though when this had occurred... They probably would still be arguing about it now all these years later. She was annoyed when she got back but it was that or no images.. Which as a head of marketing is not possible

Another I covered where head of marketing got fired and they had to wait 6 months for a new director (they also had a restructuring going on) so I was hired to act as temporary Head until the new director started. The department was a mess so I changed everything and ended up taking the team from very low esteem to highly efficient, creating award winning campaigns and very happy. New director was hired thinking that the department would be a mess so lots of things to improve and lots of easy wins.

She undid lots of my processes while I was still handing over in a bid to win over some brownie points with other staff out of the department which only caused problems and upset.

I find a problem with the budget she had implemented while still technically under my management... Tell finance and my contact was cut short by a month. Two days after I'm gone the team is in chaos as they haven't been properly handed over but also she's breaking processes to protect them from stupidity from other teams (such as demanding a poster when we have no details of content, budget, size, etc or even not providing minium times to be created instead allowing them to demand instantly again despite the work load).

Within two weeks ago but one member of the team quit.

Another told me to change anything and everything as I pleased but never returned.

Another role told me that I couldn't make any changes despite that being the whole point I was there. Top boss found out and I got to start making changes. She enough it helped but I know a year on they went back to their old ways when the boss was focused on other parts of organisation with a big project.

Some people are great but with these roles most people tell you they are happy with you making changes to make it easier for you but they feel their role has been invaded when they return or even start.

It is hard to explain to people that when you say "this is the way we do things now" is not how you actually put it but it is far easier than trying to explain to mn the conversations that you did have around "so we made these changes and it made things better". With going to the top boss, yes that may have been a negative move but after managing a team, trying to turn off that protective gear of standing up for them or having that direct line can be hard. They are used to you now being that person to go to with their issues or to stand up for them.

As others have said, take this as a learning experience and look for a new role elsewhere. You are only going to get stressed out by it. I learnt to do that after a while, and that is even with leaving.

You did your best, you learnt alot and for a while you made life far easier for them. Those people now know there is a better way and without you there, they might be able to champion that change or use that when they also move on.

This is why maternity covers that come and leave are often better - they almost always return and they will want some security of their job back than feeling like someone else waiting in the wings who may or may not have been better.

Good luck with the job hunt - it is going to be best for you and your returning member of staff to try to grow but move on from this.

And your comment about your boss having a 3rd baby and not coming back was nasty.

Really?! She didn’t say she hoped she had some terrible accident or became seriously ill! I don’t believe anyone who gets a better job as maternity cover is rooting for their predecessor to come back.

I'll wager those of us with management experience commenting on the thread and thinking this may well be the case are probable older and more experienced than op.

What makes you think I don’t have management experience?

It’s possible the changes had a negative impact elsewhere, but it’s equally possible and frankly far more likely that the changes were small scale that didn’t impact anything other than the team’s efficiency.

You’re presuming the boss to be a good manager in a country that excels at poor management and low productivity, in a civil service famous for its inefficiency, for which you don’t even appear to understand the recruitment process.

Why do people just take it as read that the manager is in the position because of competence and experience? Maybe she is, but some managers are utterly useless and aren’t worth the title or the salary, and are only there by virtue of having been in the company a long time.

Agreed. It’s very odd. And I agreed with your earlier post.

Sorry, but I think you're unreasonable here. Like your boss, I went on maternity leave for 6 months and came back to find that the person acting in my role had made many changes which were ABSOLUTELY NOT for the better. All this did was make for an extremely uncomfortable situation when I returned back to work to find things I'd worked so hard on in a complete mess....it left me angry and over worked trying to clear up the mess and meant that I didn't have the robust information the my senior managers required to make appropriate decisions. I was so angry at the way my hard work had been set to ruin that I left my post for another (much better job).....unsurprisingly this person has not been promoted since I left.

OP wrote that she made loads of changes that were great and the team wanted to keep. The team are her friends.

The boss's boss is happy to reinstate the previous processes - why would he do this if the new processes were so great and effective? Productivity and effectiveness is the priority, not worrying about whose shoes have been stepped on. If OP's new processes were so great they would still be in place...

The boss's boss is happy to reinstate the previous processes - why would he do this if the new processes were so great and effective

Why did he ok them in the first place if they wouldn’t work?

Sounds like he’s rather apathetic all round. The processes may not impact him directly so he may not give a shit either way.

If OP's new processes were so great they would still be in place...

Not if the boss is trying to assert her authority and justify her job.

The team are the ones working with the changes, they’re most likely to know the impact.

Why did he ok them in the first place if they wouldn’t work

Because a good boss listens to feedback and allows changes to be made and tested

Not if the boss is trying to assert her authority and justify her job

Or maybe, just maybe... the boss has had to clear up the mess on her return? It's is possible isn't it?

Her team members (friends) have not raised concerns with anyone but her - of course they'll back their friend. If they thought more of their temp boss they would suggest keeping the changes.

I'm sure OP did a great job - I just find some of the comments unsupportive of the returning mat leaver. The boss and her boss are happy - it is OP that is not and I suspect this will be more symptomatic of having to revert to the more junior position following her temporary step up. This is understandable and she should look for another role at the higher level.