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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be so angry at this..Sick bastards burn effigy of Grenfell Tower for Bonfire Night.

441 replies

HelenaDove · 05/11/2018 17:11

Im absolutely disgusted at this and it shows how far the stigma against social housing tenants has gone.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/grenfell-tower-effigy-video_uk_5be05c4be4b01ffb1d04873b?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter

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StoneofDestiny · 06/11/2018 20:50

2018Already
I hardly think the moronic racists who made, burned, filmed and published their burning effigy of Grenfell could ever be called 'scapegoats'.
They are the masters of their own destiny and are now ironically claiming they are 'afraid for their lives'.
They will never know the fear the victims of Grenfell felt before their horrendous deaths.

No sympathy at all for these despicably human beings - an utter disgrace to the country they chose to fly the flag of over their horrendous bonfire.
Scum of the Earth.

HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 21:01

"It's sick and they are stupid. But arrested and held in custody? Who was it who authorised the cladding? Who knew they were living like that ? Didn't see them being arrested and held in custody?"

As the pster who has almost single handedly kept the Grenfell thread going that is on the News board in the 17 months since the tragedy people could post their responses on there I cant help wondering why they dont if its that important to them Its almost as if the "what about the cladding" argument is being used on this thread for ,more dubious reasons. There is plenty of info on the Grenfell The Aftermath Thread Six thread on the News board which does answer these questions......

Absolutely the people involved in the cladding and the electrical problems at Grenfell should face consequences. Ive said so many times on these boards on many threads

But it sits uneasily with me to see it being used as whataboutery to try and play down and minimize what these bastards did.

Rydon are currently busy messing the Chalcots residents around btw Still getting contracts As i have posted on the thread on the News board.

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HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 21:04

@jennymor23 has posted loads of info on here too on quite a few threads.

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jennymor123 · 06/11/2018 21:12

HelenaDove - I see the problem to be one of awareness. It's completely understandable that on the whole the UK public is not really aware of the massive problem of toxicity in our own homes, and more so when products catch fire. Industry, working through corrupt and/or lazy government officials, has brainwashed us all into believe that flame retardants provide fire safety and are not a problem toxically speaking. It took me years to see through this but anyone now can bring themselves up to speed - just Google flame retardants/California/Chicago Tribune, etc.

It's heartbreaking and shocking to have to learn that through no fault of your own, you are putting your child to sleep, or into a pram, that is packed with poisonous chemicals that can damage their health. But it's important to take this on board, so that we can change this state of affairs.

In the process, we'll be helping Grenfell survivors get justice too, since this scandal is driving the major cover up over just how toxic that fire was.

HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 21:19

I started talking about social housing issues a lot more in 2015 after watching an appalling way a tenant was treated by the contracters employed by a housing association to fit her boiler.

I had had contractors from the same company in my home too. this was just one example. i started to look into things more closely and was horrified at what i found.

Was i shocked horrified and sickened by the Grenfell fire YES

Was i surprised. NO.

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Aquilla · 06/11/2018 21:21

Very poor taste and they are undoubtedly morally depraved individuals but there should be no such thing as hate crime. Our laws were already enough before this nonsense was brought in.

jennymor123 · 06/11/2018 21:27

I wasn't surprised either. But I have been disappointed - well, angry is a better word - at just how mendacious and obfuscating the authorities have been over Grenfell. And I include the fire services in that, too - their leaders at least, including their union leaders. What I've also seen is just how well-oiled this British machine of injustice is. It dates back centuries of course, which means with any tragedy, the establishment always starts in pole position, over traumatised people who have yet to learn that the powers that be aren't there to help them, only to preserve their careers and pensions.

HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 21:29

@jennymor123 Ive pmed you.

the parallels with Hillsborough are so so stark

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HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 21:36

@jennymor123 I think the self preservation thing is part of why its so popular to see tenants as "other"

People are very resistant to any changes in housing laws and rights because of a possible knock on effect to house prices.

im now seeing claims that the people who burned the effigy attend the local Conservative club.

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SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires · 06/11/2018 21:39

HRTT, I bet it wasn't at an offical bonfire, but in somebodies back garden.

HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 21:58

Post by @BigChocFrenzy on another thread.

Imagine if Muslims made a model of the Manchester arena bombing, with models of the victims and filmed themselves gloating over it.
Still think "free speech" means they shouldn't be arrested ?

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HelenaDove · 06/11/2018 22:22

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/06/grenfell-bonfire-video?CMP=share_btn_tw

"There can be no excuse for the cruelty that was shown in that now infamous Grenfell video. It’s disgusting and vile. Unfortunately, many survivors and bereaved families endured the pain of watching people mock the trauma we all suffered that night. There is enough pain – we don’t deserve this.

Now the anger and outrage I felt after watching it has subdued, my only emotion is sadness. Sadness that this is what a small minority of our society thinks is acceptable – not only to mock the dead but also our community in general.
Grenfell bonfire video: police search house as six men questioned
Read more

Some of the misperceptions in the video – the “That’s what happens when they don’t pay their rent” comment – and the tone are not new to us. I feel like we have been fighting the judgment in it since day one. Although we’d rather focus on justice and change, our fight is also about being treated with dignity.

There was so much misinformation in the early days after the fire and much of it was spread by the media. Unfortunately many of those early misperceptions have stuck and, without really looking for the truth, some members of the public believe what they read and hear. It is a narrative that we are still trying to correct.

It started with the numbers of people living in the tower being wildly exaggerated, and was followed by a focus on the “amnesty for illegal immigrants”. No one followed up to say that the amnesty wasn’t actually necessary. We are Londoners: many of us grew up here, many had lived in the tower since birth, others have made London their home through hard work.

This idea that we don’t pay our way is untrue. Many of the flats may have been social housing, but we still paid good rent to live there. We had to put up with these attitudes from the tenant management organisation and contractors before the fire – that we should just be grateful to be there. It seems like, in some pockets of society, that attitude still exists.

Just last week I got a call from the BBC asking how I felt as a Grenfell survivor about the introduction of universal credit in North Kensington. I asked them why they were calling me about it as I am not eligible for benefits because I work. Editors had just presumed they could put a Grenfell spin on a benefits story, without bothering to question themselves why. Of course, some people do claim benefits because they need them. It certainly doesn’t make them bad. It’s more the lazy assumption by the media that grates on us.

If you take time to watch bereaved family members paying tribute to their loved ones at the start of the inquiry or the survivors who are giving evidence at the moment, you hear of people who called their work in the middle of the fire to apologise for not being able to make it in. You hear from business owners, managers, student nurses, university students and at-home carers, and a community that kept an eye out for each other. We come from all religions and none. And it was thanks to many brave young Muslim men returning from prayers that night, who ran towards the danger, that many of us escaped and were offered shelter.

While the media wrote about how we were getting expensive homes after the fire, few reported that while we were still living in hotel rooms, we got on with our lives, going back to work, back to school and finishing university studies. We never wanted any of this to happen to us. Grenfell Tower was home; North Kensington was our community. Every single survivor, bereaved family and the community would give anything to change what they went through that night.

We talk a lot about change coming from Grenfell. One change I hope will come as our story unfolds is that people will get to see the community that we are. We’re typical Londoners, looking after our families and trying to get by. It’s important because we know that other communities are fighting the same battles we are, to be treated with dignity and respect. If we are to stop another Grenfell happening again and other communities being victimised in the way we have, these attitudes and misperceptions must be challenged.

Regardless of the colour of someone’s skin or religious beliefs, no one deserved to die that night and no one has the right to make light of something so tragic. We must work to eradicate such hatred in our society."

•Natasha Elcock is a survivor of the Grenfell Tower fire and chair of Grenfell United, the survivors and bereaved families group

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Oakenbeach · 07/11/2018 00:31

Imagine if Muslims made a model of the Manchester arena bombing, with models of the victims and filmed themselves gloating over it.
Still think "free speech" means they shouldn't be arrested?

They would be no more or less deserving than the bunch of nasty racists who burnt the Grenfell effigy. And, on balance, no i don’t think this would be a matter for the law.

It’s frustrating, and frankly insulting, that some people want to insist that anyone who doesn’t agree with them over whether this was an act for which prosecution is appropriate is racist. It smacks of the very intolerance they abhor!

HelenaDove · 07/11/2018 00:47

You want to see intolerance? Try looking at the social housing threads on here sometime and the intolerance towards tenants.

Its funny how the ones further down the socio economic scale are just expected to put up with this kind of shit and when they say Enough THEY are called the intolerant ones.

Well how about the cunts who burned this effigy take some personal responsibility for what they did?

Remember personal responsibility. That thing that only tenants and those lower down the scale seem to be expected to adhere to.

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HelenaDove · 07/11/2018 00:53

Some smearing of Grenfell residents from last year. after daily mail outrage article of what they were said to be expecting.

the right wing press who seem to be suffering from a massive case of cognitive dissonance.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3109814-Grenfall-ex-residents-should-get-a-3-bed-house-with-a-garden-if-thats-what-they-want

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Oakenbeach · 07/11/2018 00:56

I agree, there is a lot of inacceptable intolerance shown towards those social housing. And it should be called out and challenged.

But all of that doesn’t mean you are immune from intolerance yourself!

Oakenbeach · 07/11/2018 00:58

Well how about the cunts who burned this effigy take some personal responsibility for what they did?

They did by handing themselves in.... That’s not enough of course in itself, and I would expect them to make an abject apology and to dedicate themselves to work to support those they so badly offended, through their time and money.

ScienceIsTruth · 07/11/2018 01:08

It's really bad taste and completely thoughtless and heartless, but it isn't a crime. They're morons, but I don't think we should have the right not to be offended by stuff.

HelenaDove · 07/11/2018 02:27

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/06/grenfell-bonfire-video-police-search-house-as-five-men-questioned

"Sam Davis, a neighbour, said she was appalled by the video. “Having the idea is one thing, then you get the cardboard box, then you go and get the tape. For me, the worst of it all is the cutout people with their hands in the air. That is the most disgusting, horrific, selfish [thing].”

Another neighbour saw the bonfire from his upstairs window. “There was drink, they were moving around the fire and letting the fireworks off,” he said. “The fireworks seemed quite expensive; they were big bangs. It’s not nice, is it? People from all over the world live up this street, they can’t be very pleased about it.”

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Whiskeyjar · 07/11/2018 05:56

Last thing is saw on the news was the police were at the property taking forensics  it is appalling that these people did this but the reaction has been extremely over the top and frankly, quite ridiculous

The best way to deal with this would be simply to name and shame the people involved

InertPotato · 07/11/2018 07:32

The competitive angst over this situation is getting a bit silly.

I wouldn't pay too much attention if Muslims did the same over Manchester arena, either.

It's ill-judged, incoherent far-right rhetoric and they're no less deserving of freedom of expression than anyone else.

It's not a million miles away from flag burning, something I also think is pretty silly but obviously offensive to many, and fundamentally protected by freedom of speech and expression.

user1457017537 · 07/11/2018 08:20

No one objects to Grenfell survivors being given a 3 bed home with a garden. The problem is that such a property in North Kensington would be in access of £2/3 million. It is unrealistic to expect to stay in that area and not be in another flat purely from the point of view that 3 or 4 families who are homeless could be helped with that money.

InertPotato · 07/11/2018 08:48

No one objects to Grenfell survivors being given a 3 bed home with a garden. The problem is that such a property in North Kensington would be in access of £2/3 million.

This sort of sentiment only makes sense if you want to make a sacred cow of Grenfell, which necessarily deprives other deserving people of finite state resources because of an emotional rather than rational response to a disaster.

Many people are suffering through their own private disasters on a daily basis, and they're on the housing list too.

jennymor123 · 07/11/2018 09:13

@HelenaDove

I agree, there is a growing, predictable and almost certainly deliberately engineered backlash taking place against Grenfell survivors/residents. One strand has been to tell everyone you're sick of hearing about Grenfell - let's move on, already. Usually delivered in an confident, knowing tone.

Take Katie Hopkins, for example . . . Recently, she made a video rant on this theme. One of the 'examples' she gave was that residents were bleating on about how unsafe the fridge-freezer type is that caused the fire (which she put down to Ramadan candles, of course - based on precisely no evidence). She said, that fridge-freezer has been cleared as being totally safe.

And that's when the inconvenience of facts and proper research come in. Because if you actually read the Department for Business's report on the fridge-freezer and the admittedly rather technical 60+ page test paper on it, then do some analysis - guess what: that fridge-freezer type actually failed some key tests, is dangerous and should therefore be recalled. However, the Business Department has its own reasons for passing the product and has been pretty confident that the likes of Hopkins are never going to bother actually researching the facts.