Mmr and links to austim

[Michelle38wales]

Do you think there’s a link with mmr and austim, I’ve already 3 children with austim so not sure about my baby having it

But with the way Wakefield was treated I can't imagine anyone is to will to take that on. He lied! To the mothers of the children he used in his 'research', to everyone who came into contact with is study.

He took money from law companies working for parents with ill children, his supposed research was inherently biased; His research methodology and its basic assumptions were flawed, really badly flawed and then he compounded that by lying about his methodology; he violated all sorts of ethics, lying to parents, conducting invasive investigations without permission (yes, he CUT INTO small children without permission or sanction) and was found guilty of deliberate fraud and caused an absolute shit storm of fear that still rattles on today 20 YEARS LATER!

Tell me how he has been mistreated? Then, if we can peel him away from his new celebrity lifestyle, maybe we can apologise to him!

Pshaw!

I'm kind of with @GreenEggsHamandChips on this...

Wakefield I don't like. He did have unethical methods, he has exploited many families imo especially in America and become the new posterboy of anti vaxxers... he was medical professional - it isn't like he doesn't know or didn't know

But he is what it all gets blamed on. He was ONE piece. On these threads it's always said "he got struck off" "he lied"

Wakefield actually I don't think ever said - "MMR causes autism" at the time

It was implied through many things that created a big storm as I said in an earlier post and grew to it all being hung on him. When there was a lot more responsible for the MMR = autism myth than Wakefield

Jenner and the smallpox vaccine... we never talk about, he also had incredibly unethical research methods to discover 'vaccination' - horrific really if you think about it - yet that unethical research has given us VACCINES and we aren't talking about him

I personally think Wakefield completely expected to be hailed as a hero - by whatever method in the long run with what he thought he was onto

And he was onto something- there is probably a gut- brain link we need to look at that we didn't know about back then. But by the way he went about things - we lost years before we got to this, and the combination of him, Blair, Media, NHS not making it clear it's a cost issue, government buying MMR before the public had confidence and forcing parents into using or not using rather than continuing singles at a cost if people weren't persuaded and so on....

Absolutely! I have far more compassion for the children who suffered, I'm not saying I feel any great sympathy for Wakefield... just that there's more to blame than one flawed man who I do think genuinely believed he was being a hero

Is it possible for you to get single vaccines for Measles, Mumps and Rubella OP?

If yes, for your own peace of mind, do this instead and seek medical advice on order and spacing of vaccinations from your GP.

Whitecat. Well firstly many adults are vaccinated. I’m mid 30s and I’m vaccinated against all those diseases. Also your adaptive immune system doesn’t distinguish between an antigenic component of the natural virus versus the vaccine. So your “natural immunity is forever vaccines last for 10 years” argument is flawed. Also you can get mumps more than once. Finally these are obligate pathogens meaning theirs no environmental reservoir- they need to pass from person to person- so if enough people are vaccinated and immune they can’t spread through a population. Hence why you may not get the disease if you aren’t vaccinated. Unfortunelty due to people not vaccinated their children herd immunity is dropping and we are seeing a resurgence in these preventable diseases.

No. Definitely not. We were spotting signs of autism in our DS at around 10-11 months old and he didn't have the MMR until he was 14 months old.

No. I reckon it's more likely to be genetic.

I think there's enough compassion to go round.

I think we should recognise that antivaxxers are rightly or wrongly acting in accordance with their own consious. I've got a lot of respect for that.

Until we cant say conclusively we know this is what causes autism we can't say Wakefield was wrong. We can say nothing has supported him since. We're not far off some of the causes of Autism so maybe well get there.

But either way not offering people ANY alternative route to vaccination is the real villain of the piece. We havr the sepetate vaccines. They should have a moral obligation to offer them if it increases vaccine uptake at all.

He did! He "suggested that the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine may predispose to behavioral regression and pervasive developmental disorder in children."

The original study linked the vaccine to bowel disease. He went further and his new hypothesis suggested a link with neuropsychiatric disease, specifically, autism.

Damn, I used to have all of that stuff on my PC... but after 20 years and a few machine upgrades I seem to have got rid of it. Somewhere here, and in TES, is a long diatribe I wrote detailing his misuse of methodology and terminology. Let's see what Google an provide...

My children and grandchild are vaccinated because at the present time on balance the benefits out weigh the possible problems.

But I am very uncomfortable with it and feel mankind may live to regret multi generational mass vaccination programmes in the same way we are beginning to regret mass use of anti-biotics and mass use of fossil fuels and mass use of plastics - some countries are even starting to ban sunscreen due to the environmental impact caused by their mass usage.

Nature has an unhealthy habit of fighting back - and it's generally not good.

But either way not offering people ANY alternative route to vaccination is the real villain of the piece. We havr the sepetate vaccines. They should have a moral obligation to offer them if it increases vaccine uptake at all. Well, they aren't offered singly because: science, finance and human behaviour.

The 3in1 is effective, cheaper and parents only have to take their kids of r 1 vaccine. There is so much research into the difference in uptake and effectiveness of many medicines that come in different stages against those that come in 1 hit!

It is not in any way immoral to offer healthcare in a manner that ensures the greatest uptake and efficacy!

I'm sure he's gone further

It's a while ago I was particularly interested in what Wakefield had to say 😁

I'm meant to be studying now but I will enjoy refreshing my brain later if you find it @CuriousaboutSamphire

I'm supposed to be working writing up a report! I just can't find the energy for it. I really should log off t'internet and get in with it!

The 3in1 is effective, cheaper and parents only have to take their kids of r 1 vaccine.

It is not cheaper and more effective than no vaccination. But why offer an alternative when we can batter them and insult their intelligence instead. That's a far more effective vaccination programme

Saves any government from addressing why they don't do EVERYTHING in their power to ensure the maximum number of people are vaccinated somehow

But either way not offering people ANY alternative route to vaccination is the real villain of the piece. We havr the sepetate vaccines. They should have a moral obligation to offer them if it increases vaccine uptake at all.

Absolutely not on the basis of current knowledge (which is of course all we can ever go on)

The 3 in 1 is most effective way of ensuring greatest mass immunisation.

If single vaccines were offered that would appear to be validating the idea that mmr is dangerous. That would cause panic and no one would have the triple vaccine. How in God's name would that help???

Green Try reading the whole post, it contains an explanation that doesn't include a conspiracy theory, ffs!

I read it. I just don't agree with it. I think it's incredibly arrogant and shows a dangerous disregard for the thoughts and feelings of the people your trying vaccinate.

I'd rather vaccinate by any way even if it is the second best way than no way

Your thought process is flawed though @GreenEggsHamandChips.
Offering what you describe as a second best option would have a catastrophic impact on the uptake of the mmr and the net result would be devastating.

@MrBirlingsAwfulWife

I hope you are right. Otherwise we have been failing to vaccinate children who would otherwise have been vaccinated for the last 20 years...

@Basecamp65 not heard of places banning sunscreen? Link please

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-46046064

Wakefield is no hero, he took money to deliberately produce flawed research. He's still taking money off idiots to continue spouting crap that he knows is lies

If the NHS offered single vaccines in anything other than exceptional circumstances, I believe wholeheartedly that this would be taken by the general public as an admission that mmr was risky. People would think why would the NHS offer a more time consuming, more expensive,less effective method of vaccination? And the conclusion would be that the triple vaccine itself was in some way 'dangerous'.

The NHS does not think the MMR is dangerous and so would not and should not offer an alternative. The message has to be clear and unambiguous.